andruca

I'm a Stingray5 guy who's been wanting to add an alternative/more "chamaleonic" 2 pickup 5er for years but couldn't find anything that both could do some P and J stuff and also would play like my Stingray 5ers, have as serious a low B and had also this wild "in-your-face-ness" to its tone (playing Musicman basses for so long has made pretty much anything else sound TAME). I've been thru: 1) FENDER AMERICAN DELUXE P 5: HORRIBLE BASS, doesn't play up to Ray 5ers, sounds dull, awful low B, crafting isn't even acceptable for the price. 2) MARUSZCZYK JAKE 5A+: NICE, light, comfortable, just couldn't stand the DEAD big pole Delanos. Appreciate the same thing on any Sandberg I've played, can be made to sound decent, but that doesn't avoid the disapointment any time I'd plug my Ray 5 after the Maru, it'd sound like someone removed a heavy blanket from over the amp. Could have changed the pickups (even on the cheap, I even prefer Wilkinsons to those Delanos) but decided to sell the bass and move on. 3) YAMAHA BB425X (passive): left me half in love about a lot, just decent, but the 5 piece neck shape has some "shoulders" to it I didn't like (sorta' D shaped). 4) YAMAHA BB615 (active): same as the 425, sounded "average", better neck than the 425, still failed to love it, not brilliant in any aspect really. 5) IBANEZ ATK305: not a P+J, but a MM+J (a very punchy and fat J that can do the P great): overall tame, VERY comfortable and light (early 2000s, MIK, mahogany body). 6) FERNANDES GRAVITY DELUXE 5: again, not a P+J but can do P amazingly well: had 2 for years, light and comfy, but in the end didn't have the needed heft to their tone. 7) EBMM STERLING 5 HS: the neck pickup is too close to the neck and even the more "jazzy" combinations don't sound J at all, couldn't move on with it (even tho' I loved how it played and felt) because of that and the modern preamp which sounded noticeably thinner than my Stingray5s (both pre-2008, 3-coil ceramic) and also sorta' "shy" on the EQ (in my Rays, just a little off the center detent of the EQ knobs goes a long way, with modern Musicman preamps you have to really mean it). A note on what I've learned about pickup placing and combinations: a neck humbucker is more useless the further it's located from the Musicman spot towards the bridge (it can even be great moved the other way, even at the P spot, but useless if moved towards the bridge too past the MM point). Now, all these basses have been blown out of the water since last February, when I got what's definitely my keeper fender'ish "impersonator" 5er, the SCHECTER CV-5 (Diamond Series). No PJ I've ever played can even touch this bass. Best 35" neck I've ever played (I luv'em SKINNY), 2 J-bucker pickups that look like guitar pickups but are really like 2 Jazz pickups together, both can be switched independently for single-parallel-series wiring. It comes with a 3-way pickup selector, which I swapped for the appropriate taper blend pot for extending its already wide tone palette. Can do SEVERAL FLAVORS of J, P and some more stuff. It's comfortable, not that light for today's standards (~9.5lb), and it packs both some serious balls for a passive bass (WAY more gain than my Stingrays) but also serious tone shaping options for a passive bass as the coil tapping of each pickup (if you know what to expect from series -thick and meaty-, parallel --more hi-fi- or single coil and the combination of both pickups -more of a timbrical tuning-), you can literally boost/cut bass, mid or treble with the flip of a switch. I've owned a Peavey T40, which had the nicest passive electronics I had played, but even then you had to mess with cutting back the tone controls to make pickups go from single to humbucking, this is so much straightforward, sort of like a poor man's Roscoe Beck V (with a way more comfortable neck -same 22 frets- and a 17mm string spacing @bridge I much prefer -used to my Rays 17.5mm, so no problem-). It's got light tuners and carbon neck reinforcements, things you usually don't see in this price range (this cost me little over 600€ new, got it from the USA -shipping and customs included-). Made in Indonesia, but better construction and overall perceived quality than a (also Indonesian) Sterling by Musicman Ray35 I just sold (little higher price range new, mine went for 550€ second hand). Here's a cool review of the CV-4 which shows some of the many tones this bass can do. And here's a quick demo of my CV-5 over some drums and the whole "band". Bass is recorded on a Zoom R24 recorder using just a built-in SansAmp emulation in has. This is neck pickup in single coil (uses bridge side coil) and bridge pickup in parallel, playing with a pick (sorry for that, here's me playing some Billy Talent with my fingers on it -same settings-, phone sound but you can really appreciate the thickness, punch and overall aggressiveness).

I don't see this as a matter of it "being worth the effort" (which indeed isn't much really if you're smart and choose a skinny fast neck), but a question of how you need it and how willing are you to explore the 5 string bass and let it change you as a performer. I own and play exclusively 5ers (save for an Epiphone Viola I don't use at all and am about to sell) and the good thing is I let the 5 string bass change me starting 25 years ago. Made me a "low" bassist, I too use the low B more than the hi G, and could probably get away with a 4 banger strung BEAD for all the rock stuff I do.

Another Stingray5 guy here. I own 2, from the ceramic era (circa 1997 & 2003). The Stingray5 has been my #1 choice since 2001. - It plays like no other 5er (absolutely love thin sharp C necks, mine are 20mm thick @fret1, also 17.5mm spacing is where it's at for me) - It has an aggressive personality I love to its sound (much prefer ceramic to alnico SR5s, too hi-fi'ish/"tame" for me in comparison) - It cuts in a mix like no other instrument (thanks to some notorious "prrrrrrrrr" magic in the lo-mids) - Has a really serious low B, top stuff amongst 34" scale basses Been looking for a 2 pickup timbrically Fender'ish bass with those 4 features for the occasional need. I've settled on a Schecter CV 5. The neck's even thinner (so is the spacing at 17mm, not even remotely problematic to me) and it's so comfortable to play I can't even tell the extra 1" in scale length. Very versatile twin switchable humbucker configuration, sounds all sorts of Fender, but with that "in-your-face-ness", punch, cutting ability and playability I love about my Stingray5s. As a reference, I've owned many other 5ers including: - Ibanez CT-5 - Ibanez SR-505 - Ibanez ATK-305 - Ibanez ATK-405 (2 pickups) - Fernandes APB-5 - Fernandes Gravity Deluxe 5 - Maruszczyk Jake 5a+ - EBMM Sterling5 HS - Cort Curbow 5 (Mighty Mite pickup version) - Yamaha BB-615 - Yamaha BB-425X

Only bass I really hated amongst those I owned was a USA G&L L-1505. Bought it for a steal in 2003 ($700, new). By that time I'd already had my first Stingray5 for a couple years. I'd read it was like a "logical evolution" to a SR5, and I would've been satisfied with it at least being a viable backup, but it wasn't even that. WAY harder to play than a Stingray5 (thick neck, nothing like modern Kiloton5 or JB-5 necks, old L range neck), sounded real tame compared to a SR5 (I had a whole year to A/B them, no contest), and the onboard EQ of the L line is simply flawed (hissy a/f -even after thoroughly shielding all cavities, made ZERO difference- and orthopaedic, virtually just a treble boost -something an L-1505 doesn't need really-). HATED the damm thing. Second to that bass in my frustration ranking was a Maruszczyk Jake 5a+, totally ruined by those DEAD MC/PMVC Delanos. TBH the bass played great, was light and comfortable and superb quality all in all, just a terrible pickup choice. Not only it sounded obviously dead compared to the real thing (Musicman) but even plugging in an 88€ Thomann P style kit bass felt like somebody had lifted a blanket from upon any amp I'd use and boosted the mids, I'd take that no brand P pickup over the Delano PMVC all day long (surprisingly good P pickup, BTW, also liked it better than a Bill Lawrence P-46 I tried in that kit build).

I've done that exact same repair to a friend's beat up guitar. It involved Titebond III and some clamps and wedges and hard (but adapting) foam to make the clamps press tight and really perpendicular to the crack. My skills end WAY LONG before luthier level, most skilled woodworking I do is press and shape some longskate decks from time to time, but the crack was fixed OK and the guy didn't even need (nor want) any refinishing as the guitar was in terrible cosmetic shape and was his intention to keep it like that (or worse).

I prefer Classic Vibe '70s P bass (spec'd the same as the former Matt Freeman sig. model) to any other P besides a friend's Custom Shop. Thin neck, lovely playability and the right Precision clonk for my taste. I agree the CVs are superior to the VMs, build and finish feels and look better IME and I like the offered models better too.

You're meaning a TRIBUTE, are you? That's what I was referring to. There's the USA Kiloton5, which I've in fact tried, and loved ❤️

Great score! Kilotons are lots of bass for the money, moreso Tributes. G&L always has me wishing they made Tribute Kiloton5 and JB5 versions. IIRC their only 5er offer is the L2500, and I don't like L 5ers at all (had a 1505, played lots of 2500s, not for me, hate the unintuitive yet noisy electronics and also prefer the K5/JB5 thinner neck profile).

IDK what Sterlings have you tried but it's not just the nut width, it's also front to back sharpness (20mm @ fret 1 for the 4 string MM Sterling). That's Ibanez SDGR thin and much sharper than Fender's sharpest of C profiles (except for the aforementioned Geddy). I'm a thin (front to back) neck freak, I got all the freakish data about neck dimensions (more so on 5ers, which are really my thing). Sterling 4 and 5 string basses (and the Stingray5 too) have a much thinner profile than most Fender Jazzes.

So, you've been looking for a Musicman Sterling bass 😉 IME thinner than any Jazz Bass neck I've ever played, maybe besides the jap Geddy Lee Fender Jazz's. I know a Sterling doesn't sound exactly like a Stingray, with the ceramic pickup and 3 position switch it sounds even better.

The only Caprice I ever tried was way superior to any Fender I've played (no matter the range, even CS) in both feel AND sound. I was hoping they'd come up with a 5 string version eventually. I've been seeing this coming in TalkBass for months, sad.

The only boutique basses I'd ever own (in the highly fictional case I could afford any) are a Wal MK3 5er and a couple Pedulla 5ers (17.5mm spaced Pentabuzz and MVP5). All else, from Ritters thru' Jerzys to Foderas say nothing to me. So it's a sad day for me, if I can't afford a Pedulla now it'll get further and further in the future. Even tho' I can see why Mike's so personal about basses carrying his name on them I still think Wal in fact is a perfect example of a craft that's been passed on from founders while retaining the highest quality standards, and demand (and wait times) definitely confirm this. I'm sure Mike Pedulla has mentored many great artisans (even the people in his payroll) who could license some sort of brand extension ("Pedulla Legacy"?) and continue with their work. Also a good way for Pedulla to keep cashing on his (wait for it)... LEGACY 👍

Cheap Warwick Reds, just not the usually seen rough steel version but the NICKEL ones (only available from thomann AFAIK), the lower 4 strings of a .045-.135 set.

I have my Epiphone Viola (30.5" scale) strung BEAD since the day I got it. Works OK both for the picked kind of HC/punk I play with it (with enough thick SansAmp crunch) or the occasional acoustic stuff (hate ABGs, a hollow body does it better, every time), in which I pluck mostly with a soft touch. This clip is picked but way cleaner than I usually go, still can serve as a sample. In the case of the Viola it helps to roll back the neck volume just a tad (so is here) but usually I use both pickups maxed as this gives me a more consistent OD response, vital for punk bass' omnipresence. http://andresdemarco.info/ImaginaEpifonSAMPCMP.mp3

I like Sandbergs, just can't stand the Delano big poles pickups, sounded a mix of dead and scooped I don't really like in every single Sandberg I've tried and also in a Maruszczyk Jake 5a+ I've owned, either switched passive or active. Those Roswell pickups on the latest Harley Benton Sandberg ripoffs sound WAY BETTER to me just from clips I've heard (haven't tried those Roswells myself). I know many love those Delanos. I highly dislike them.

What I have is mostly 5ers. Recently went from overall 10 basses down to just 5. That Schecter CV-5 rendered all my non-Musicman 5ers obsolete, sold them all (except for that "diy or die" red one, originally a thomann P kit my wife gifted me, an ongoing Frankenstein with no resale value, its value is the ongoing DIY adventure, went thru' different stages until its current form, a reverse P+J 5er). Also got rid of a uke-bass, most useless and ridiculous piece of gear I've ever spent my hard earned cash on (closely followed by both ABGs I've owned, SO useless). Looks like "maturity" is sorta' getting me. Haven't departed from my ceramic Stingray 5ers for almost 2 decades, that's what I love to play and sound like, the bar with which I measure all other 5ers. The only other thing I'll eventually needed is a decent "Fender killer" 5er (with a usable low B -unlike Fenders-) on the aggressive side that plays as close to my Rays as possible, for eventual Fender'ish duties, and I found that in the CV-5 (after trying and owning LOTS of attempts, including many real expensive ones). Don't need much else really. Then I have this "intruder" (strung BEAD, punk A/F despite the 30.5" scale)...

It's called identity politics. Means your value and eventual outcome are not dependent on your merit anymore. Also you cannot debate ideas "per se" anymore without your "privileged" nature coming up (one way or another they get you, we all are privileged in comparison to some other being) totally ruining the search for anything remotely close to a truth of any kind. People doing good are automatically labelled perpetrators and people not doing so good are labelled victims, just like that. Hierarchies are only reduced to how high or low your "opressed collective" of choice ranks in victimization. Sad. I know the way I think is not a trend these (collectivist) days. The supression of individuals (and their responsibility) is my idea of totally dehumanizing decadence. Only thing that's "progressing" is the complexity of the labelling, in very authoritarian ways, typical of those not trying not extract a single lesson from objective reality, but forcing (narrowing) reality to fit into their (pretty resentful and binary) script.

I'll contribute one of my most beloved GFR songs to this wonderful thread. Great bass line too.

I do this with all my 4 strings. Nowadays I only have one, an Epiphone Viola which, despite its 30.5" scale length, gets the BEAD treatment anyway. I also have a P-style thomann kit bass I've been modifying thru' time. It used to be a 4 string, also strung BEAD from day zero (either for use anywhere an "acoustic" bass is needed or SansAmped to hell and back for picked punk/HC stuff). This is one of it's final stages as a 4-string (after that video I added an S1 switch, then made it into a 5 string wth a distressed red finish, with the tone control back on -had lost it when I added the J pickup-). If playing 5ers did anything to me that's making me a LOW bass player (I totally let it change me). I too wood rather lose the G string than my low B.

I wish I had grabbed one of these when Thomann had them in the 600€ realm 😞 So much bang for the buck. German Star Basses are several times that money, hard to justify for what in my case would be a "niche" bass (my main thing is a thick crunchy Stingray5 tone, aggressive and in-your-face). This RB Star Bass 5 goes for almost 1000€ nowadays. Such price kills the bang for the buck IMHO, you're paying Korean kinda' money for a Chinese bass (even tho' craft was as good as Indonesian or even Korean made instruments, market-wise it's not the same league). Unfortunately almost non-existent in the 2nd. hand market. As per other more "orthodox" Warwick models IDK really, not a fan of them at all, just love the RB Star Bass.

I much prefer these pickups to the Delano big poles, which I've hated in every single Sandberg I've played (and a Maruszczyk Jake 5a+ I've had -ditched it because of the obfuscated tone those Delanos produce, otherwise a great bass-). These are cool, and I definitely prefer to scoop pickups' tone myself not have them scooped from factory.

It'd be nice to have a "jerk detector" to avoid doing good things for people who don't deserve it. Still, a good deed is a good deed, even done for jerks that aren't worth it. Keep checking pawnshops often, he might need some dough for meth. Hope it happens before the bass is left in decay again.

I know I'm probably derailing your line of thought (and definitely not answering any of your questions), but probably still relevant... If I could afford the kind of money you're about to invest in a fretless bass I'd seriously consider adding 20-30% more budget and go the used Pedulla Buzz route. Best fretless thing I've ever been around. I've extensively played both 4 and 5 strings (Pentabuzz, even had some lessons using one -an instructor's-), they're so above any other fretless bass I've played or owned (only modest Jazzes), and that defintely includes Warwicks and Spectors (never played fretless Mayoneses). The playability (that neck, oh my!), the right mwah, the responsiveness, that allmighty burpy attack, can get as delicate or as ballsy as you need (way more tones than just the trumpet like thing most play for reviews) to accomodate many moods & styles. Overall some of the most inviting basses I've played in my life.

Already saw that in TB, gorgeous. Immense deal.

I think the word you're looking for is... LIFE? IME (on a Maruszczyk Jake 5a+ I had with those pickups) those big pole Delanos sound DEAD, indeed terribly dead if you have the real thing beside to A/B (I own a a couple -ceramic era- Stingray5s). Everytime I plugged in a Ray after that Maruszczyk it felt like someone had lifted a blanket from upon the amp. Funny thing is it also happend with a Harley Benton P-bass kit build, I'd even take that cheapo' P pickup over the Delano big pole P pickups any day. They were the reason I got rid of that Maruszczyk which, otherwise, was a superb instrument (still can't touch my current "Fender killer").