andruca

Over the weekend a deal I couldn’t let pass showed up and just hours ago I picked up a G1Xon for 30€, like new, in its box and including a power supply. There was plenty of space in the firmware edition to add the basic effects I need for bass (Bass PEQ, SansAmp, AcBsPre and a handful others, less than a dozen overall). So now it's a G1Xon with the basic stuff I need there for bass, analog to my MS-60B that now has some added guitar amps in it. Love having the AUX IN so this will travel with me in a gigbag a lot. I copied a couple patches from my B3 and, besides initial need to set global/patch volumes I cannot tell a difference in tone between neither of them (B3, MS-60B, G1Xon). Because I'm working in a couple different computers I've set up a folder to have all my Zoom FX firmware tweaking resources in one place. You'll see some G3/B3 stuff I stored there too, just ignore it, it's there for my use. Totally related to this, has anyone ever tried to install G3 firmware to a B3 or viceversa? Thanks in advance.

As a software guy myself I love this kind of projects. All my respect for these wise and generous people. I can't find a way to donate to the guys behind it, is there any?

Hey everybody! I've just done the "personalized" firmware installation into my MS-60B and I love how easy you can do this. I've basically removed some useless effects (the kind of filler stuff I hate in multieffects, who in this world needs 20 flavors of choruses, reverbs, delays, the bomber or the ring modulator?) and added some guitar amps (Rectifier, JCM800&2000, Bogner, Diezel, Twin Reverb, AC30, Hiwatt) so I can have a nice array for home recording or eventual "Royal Blood on the cheap", a trick where I'd use both the B3 and MS-60B together, with the MS-60B handling the guitar part (input from B3's right output, chain of 2 pitch shifters -fixed octave up and on/off 5th above that- plus some distortion, I was using the Metal Zone emulation, now I use the Rectifier I just loaded). The information in this thread has been HIGHLY VALUABLE to me, a BIG THANK YOU guys for sharing.

New "soundclouder" here. https://soundcloud.com/andres-de-mordecai Just uploaded my latest 2 home demos (my "current generation", this is the best I've produced at home so far, detailed enough for it to be learned by the rest of the band then recorded in a real studio). Drums made in Hydrogen using a kit I've built thru' the years (anyone else still using Hydrogen?, might be out of fashion, but I've been to Addictive Drums and still prefer Hydrogen). Then imported it as layers (kick, snare, HH, stereo toms, stere OHs) into a Zoom R24 and recorded everything else in there. For bass I used either a Musicman Stingray 5 (demo 2) or a Schecter CV-5 (demo 1) thru' the R24's own multieffects (on input, SansAmp emulation and heavy compression). Used a cheapo' Tele copy for guitar (carelessly played really, pretty rough), also thru' a Boogie emulation inside the R24. Vocals (in Spanish) were recorded using my Shure SM7B. Then it all went out of the R24 and into Reaper for some editing, final mixing and "mastering" (loudness mostly).

I got it from a guy in Mallorca IIRC, back in late 2017. If you're looking for a 4 string there's a 400 in Torrevieja, Alicante, right now (gorgeous BTW, includes a case, great price). https://www.milanuncios.com/bajos/bajo-electrico-4-cuerdas-ibanez-atk-400-348637486.htm

I've owned what is the lightest and skinniest necked ATK I've ever put my hands on, a 2001 MIK ATK-405 (5 string, with extra jazz style pickup in the neck position). Body was mahogany and weight was under 4kg. Neck thickness (front to back) was slightly over 20mm at fret 1, and that's almost SDGR thin (also, I'm a Stingray5 guy and those are 20mm@fret 1). Had owned a MII ATK-305 years before that and it was heavy and neck was not bad, but chunkier as all other ATKs I've played (MANY). The tone variety is also interesting in this one. These can be had for less than 400€ 'round here (Spain), if and when one appears in the used market (haven't seen any show up for the last couple of years here).

I've been thru' some basses in that range and IME a used Stingray is hard to beat. Having been to modern era alnico flavors too, my faves are ceramic era (only EBMMs I own these days). Also been to Maruszczyks, Sandbergs, several Yamaha BBs, even an American Deluxe P 5. None is anywhere remotely close to a Stingray 5 bass. Also, I personally despise Delano big pole pickups, some of the worst pickups I've played and owned (PMVC5 + MC5 in a Maruszczyk Jake 5a+). Not only they don't carry the balls (my maruszczyk also happened to perform poorly in a mix), they sound several flavors of DEAD compared to the real thing.

I agree, that's why I was severely attenuating 180hz (with a narrow Q). I moved the frequency around testing to get to those 180hz (all of this while A/Bing with the MS-60B, same bass, same amp).

No direct comparison, sorry (and I don't own the Four anymore). Still, just for reference, this is another bass, different bass lines, but the mood is the same (crunchy fat SansAmp, either aggressively plucked or picked). This is the MS-60B, brighter, punchier, bassier. Not only that, the Star Bass in my previous post is a Jazz Bass of doom (sounds pretty much like a Jazz, a hotter and warmer/fatter version, has way more gain and way more bass than almost any Jazz Bass). The ghetto Jazz in this sample is made of parts (all totalling 89€) and it absolutely kills on the MS-60B, it blows the Stingray5 in my first B1X Four sample out of the water, with just the SansAmp and 160comp emulations. Also the SansAmp overdrive reacts differently, for a starter it doesn't mess my lo-mids with unnecessary distortion (what really screws up the emulation on the Four, but that still might be the overall built-in 180hz peak ruining it).

And here's another sample, made some months into owning it. I particularly remember it being a PITA to EQ, this has 180hz severely cut (narrow band), plus some 80hz boost (wider), plus the ZNR I don't need to use on neither my MS-60B or B3 (where I only need the SansAmp and 160 comp emulations to sound like this). Also gain definitely works in a weird manner in the B1X Four. I kept trying to bring noise down (and also to push preamp and compressor emulations harder) by upping any previous pedals' output volumes, which most of the times did NOTHING (neither push further compression/OD harder nor bring effective volume up so I could lower overall volume -and noise with it-). IDK much about gain structures or whatever, thus can't explain what's different from the B3/MS-60B (they're both just emulations, chained), but you can tell if you do a serious A/B trying to reproduce on the Four a tone you like from the B3/MS-60B. Not even talking same parameters as those simply don't work. If you use the same parameters for (i.e.) SansAmp in the Four it doesn't sound anything like the same parameters on the B3/MS-60B (which obviously sound exactly the same as each other).

OK, I might have not been precise with my claims. The noise happens even on batteries, but it's probably more a result of having to deal with excess EQ stages to combat plain boxy/dead tone. This is a sample of the B1X Four I've had. Nothing wrong with it, no lemon, no power supply problems. I could have gotten away with it, just not after how miserably sounding it resulted when tested side by side with the MS-60B/B3, they sound more full, punchier and brighter with SansAmp emulation EQ controls almost flat and the 160comp behind it. The 180hz boxy peak only worsens the lack of lowend, particularly ruins things as the SansAmp crunch past a certain gain point. I might be a bit of a nitpicker here. My impression of the B1X Four was excellent, and I didn't care much until I started A/Bing them and trying to get it to sound as fat, defined, bright and punchy. Once I did the Four got old fast.

You're telling me I could have the Darkglass emulation (available only since B3n/B1 Four) in my MS-60B or B3?

A personal experience warning about the B1 Four/X Four (from someone who also knows the MS-60B/B3 inside out) . I've had an MS-60B since 2015 and it's served me extremely well. Not into a lot of effects, but more of a base tone kinda' guy (fat crunchy SansAmp + compression). I own a real SansAmp (an RBI) which has been my main recording tool since 2004, but it has rarely left my studio since I've got the MS-60B. I usually carry the pedal as my "tone in a box" and use whatever amp, even one of my own. Now, 6 months ago I got a B1X Four. Not that I needed it, but just wanted to have the Darkglass emulations (set on and happy with my SansAmp tone, can't really justify buying a B7K) and also something more state of the art with an expression pedal (after selling a Zoom 708II I had for a long time), even tho' I rarely use that. First thing I did when I got it was try to replicate the patches in my MS-60B (basically one crunchy and one -sorta'- clean patch for each bass I use). Right away I became aware of 2 serious issues with the Four: 1) it's damm BOXY and 2) it's noisy. Spent months trying to make it sound remotely as good as my MS-60B. No luck, to a point where it's even useless for it to have 5 slots instead of 4 if I need to add ZNR and additional EQ to tame a horrible 180hz peak (BOXY zone) and add both lowend and highs in every patch (only to get sorta' close, not quite there at all). Also the ParaEQ model changed, for very worse, now it's only one band, while it was 2 band in the MS-60B/B3. Side by side the Four sounds several levels of DEAD, doesn't carry the punch, the balls nor the liveliness. Also the params for the same effect (say SansAmp emulation) don't work the same on both units. Doesn't Zoom use a previous version of an emulation as reference or starting point to develop the next generation? Dont they plug in a bass and test the same emulation in the old model vs. the new one? The differences I'm talking about are TOO NOTORIOUS to obviate. I don't know what it is (only remarkable electronic difference is input impedance is 1Mohm on the B3/MS-60B vs. 470Kohm on the Fours, could that justify higher noise?). Still, it's not the first time I experience this kind of mishap with Zoom (which I adore and have got MANY great devices from), I got rid of a B2.1u 10 years ago because it didn't sound as good as the 708II I previously had. But it was not like this, this is different, it's like the Four's response is narrowed, BOXY, that's definitely the exact word, very annoyingly so. Sold the B1X Four and got a B3 which sounds exactly as great as my MS-60B and altho' having one less effect slot (still enough for me) it's also a GREAT audio interface and has a DI and even has a CTL in for an expression pedal I found around. Also dealt with faking a sorta' Darkglass, blending in some CMOS distortion/OD in for that middy crunch (there's several models available, the Squeak -RAT- works decently, also do the DS-1 and ODB-3). I've recorded several stuff with this B3 (both from the DI and using it as an interface) and as of today I don't feel like using the SansAmp RBI for recording anymore, I way prefer the recorded tone coming out of the B3 TBH. Haven't tried a B3n but I'm kinda' guessing it has the same problem (I know, not instantly obvious until you A/B one with a B3). Guess I'll have to wait for a future generation to do any upgrades, the Fours don't cut it for me.

I must make clear that the StarBass is the least hollow feeling and sounding of all semi-hollows I've played. It's just the best semi-hollow for those who don't get along too well with the microphonics, the honkiness and lack of articulation. Also it beats all others I've played (the Jack Cassady, some AGB/AFBs, some Eastwood, also played several Hofners and owned an Epiphone Viola) in the bass, punch and sustain dept, if you owned some Star Basses you're probably aware. I'd for sure use the Star Bass for situations where I'd use a semi-hollow, but also for anything else. In fact it's my #1 two pickup 5er these days (my main axes are Stingray5s). This is an example of how my Star Bass records for punk stuff, both in a J mood and in a P mood. Also, for comparison, here's the same track recorded on a Stingray5.

Update! L to R: 2003 Stingray5, 1997 Stingray5, 2011 WPS Star Bass 5, DIY fretless reverse P+J 5er, DIY Jazz Bass

For me it's skinny all the way (not over 20mm front to back @ fret 1). Also I prefer a narrow nut and not over 18mm of spacing at bridge (I own mostly 5ers). Only concession I've made lately is my WPS Star Bass 5, which isn't something outrageous either (21mm @ fret 1) but more D shaped than C. My ideal are my Stingray 5ers' necks, some of the sharpest Cs around, almost Ibby SR thin, narrow nut, 17.5mm spacing. That's my home.

I've only had one "regular" P bass (plus a Maruszczyk Jake 5a+ and a couple Yamaha BBs), and 4 Jazzes (my first bass, a cheap Argentinean Jazz copy, a couple '90s MIJ Fenders and my current cheap parts Jazz). I'm really into the Jazz neck pickup tone, prefer it to a P in fact, the mood is similar but there's some extra twang. I'm into the neck PU full + bridge PU slightly dimmed bunch too, so sweet. I did the series-parallel push-pull mod on my current parts Jazz, makes for some de facto boost/bass boost, very useful for making a thin amp thump, "Motowns down" the all open Jazz tone.

Haven't played the Epi Rivoli. On the Ibby Artcores, well, let's say I WAY PREFER the Jack Casady, or the Epi Viola for the case. Didn't like those Artcores much, thin and nasal sounding. I think many of those are completely hollow body, not even semi hollow, sounded both dead and thin to me in comparison. Beware, I even ditched any acoustic from my life because of how they feel (even the uke-bass, most useless bass related thing I've ever bought), so YMMV.

I haven't played that many hollow/semi-hollow basses, and they have never been my main instrument (Stingray5 has been for the last 20 years), but I've still been to a few places... I've had an Epiphone Viola, after extensively trying the (then) available cheap Hofner options (Icon and Contemporary) and liking the Epi better, seemed considerably more solid, better built, while being the cheapest. Sound wasn't exactly the same but close enough on flats (which I put on only for a short period, I either used this for "acoustic" gigs or HC/punk -tuned BEAD, yep, worked thru' some crunchy SansAmp and heavy compression-). Later in my owning life I used it in a more "reasonable" fashion, regular tuning and worn in (pretty dead indeed) roundwounds. Sometime around 2011/2012 I became aware of the Warwick Star Bass (by about the time they started manufacturing the RockBass version). At that time they were hard to spot used, and I couldn't justify the cost. But also hadn't realised its real potential. Over the years I've played the Jack Casady many times, also the Ibanez Artcore/ABF. I really like the Gibson tone and vibe (just not single cut basses), in fact I was this close to getting an Epi EB3 ad one point in time. I did appreciate that the Casady doesn't sound as nasal as the mini humbuckers (and their position) on my Viola. Then I finally tried a couple RockBass Star Basses at a couple stores and that changed it all. Still it wasn't until a couple months ago that I got lucky enough to find one I could afford. Happened to be a black Korean ProSeries 5er from 2011, at the bargain price of 600€. Now, what differentiates the Star Bass with any other semi-hollow? Simply put, the only thing hollow about it is it's louder when unplugged. Has a thick maple core all thru' the center of the body. There's no microphonics, no feedback, and it's both more "precise" and more "virile" sounding than usual semi-hollows (the 4 string RockBass version is 32", all others are 34"). It can definitely sound in the semi-hollow ballpark with flats (and mostly on the neck PU), but its tone is like that of a Jazz Bass but extra warm and fat, super punchy and with supernatural sustain (lows keep pushing longer than those out of my Rays, you notice that in the way it pushes your preamp, surprising). So, I'm starting to feel bad for the kind of advice I'm giving. Not that I regret my preference, but it's clearly cheating, you know, a Star Bass is the semi-hollow for people who don't get along much with typical semi-hollows. I even modded it to get rid of the other semi-hollow "thing" that I hate 100%, THEY HANG HORRIBLY, NOT JUST THE OMNIPRESENT NECKDIVE BUT THEY TILT FORWARD BECAUSE OF THE STUPID STRAP PIN POSITION AT THE HEEL. Took care of that 2 days after getting mine, flooded the tip of the upper horn with epoxy and put the strap button there, hard as a rock. Now it faces front like a usable bass, and it also helped neckive. This is how it sounds with rounds and in a "rocky" mood... So, take my "advice" with many grains of salt. Probably heretic to the semi-hollow concept (also heretic to Warwick, as I only like the least Warwick models such this one or the Jack Bruce SG shaped one), but I still prefer the Star Bass over any other hollow/semi-ollow bass I've ever played or heard. So much so that it's my only and all-purpose 2 pickup fretted 5er nowadays (selling the Schecter CV5 I've had for occasional "Fenderish" duties, great bass, but the SB can do it all, it's THAT great for my needs).

Yep, sorry for the typo, 2011. Same thing here in Spain, only ones seen (rarely) are the RockBass version, and for no less than 700€. I got mine from Italy. Don't know why but Star Basses show up way more frequently used over there, some you can find in Reverb (usually from stores) and there's also mercatinomusicale.com, which is where I spotted mine.

I'm here just to fuel you Star Bass craving. Got this for 600€ a month ago (2001, Korean Pro Series). Can't tell much of a difference with the Chinese RockBass versions I had tried before, maybe it's just little finish details (and RockBass' rosewood instead of wenge), I'm sure those will be virtually equally nice to grab. STILL, I must say the Star Bass is cheating. I chose it because I've owned an Epiphone Viola (and played several Jack Casadys) and decided I don't like real semihollow "spirit" much (mocrophonics, most of those mini humbuckers sound horrible). It feels and plays like a solid body (just sounds louder unplugged). And it sounds like a Jazz Bass with humbucker lows, more delicate/detailed highs, and INSANE SUSTAIN (yes, more than my Stingray5s, mostly I can tell the lows keep pushing the preamp longer, real nice). It can still sound decently hollow with flats. Only drawback I can think of (not inherent to the StarBass but to most semi hollows/hollows) is the POOR choice of strap pin location (at the heel). I know this is for the sake of "classic authenticity", but couldn't care less, I want my basses to play and hang right and this not only worsens neckdive (much less of a problem in this bass than almost any other bass of the kind) but it also creates a further, even worse, issue: the bass body tilts forward, facing to the floor, SUCKS. I changed the pin location on mine 2 days after getting it (solidifying the top of the upper horn with some epoxy flooding), easy, cheap, and damm solid. It hangs like it should now (facing front) and it also helped neckdive. Except for that the bass is light years away from any semihollow IME. You can grab one used one for what many other of your mentioned choices (Chowny, Gretch, the Jack Casady) cost new or less, and it's definitely a lot more bass for the dough.

For the kind of money you're looking forward to spend I strongly suggest you check a used Star Bass out, either the Warwick ProSeries (Korean preferrable) or the RockBass version (Chinese, still not bad). I've recently got a Korean ProSeries 5 string Star Bass and I couldn't be happier. Only other semi-hollow I've owned is an Epiphone Viola, but also have tried several Hofners and Jack Casadys, as well as the AGB205. The StarBass crushes them all for my taste and needs. It's not as hollow body sounding as others (still can do the job pretty well on flatwounds and is pretty loud unplugged), that's and advantage for me but it might not be to you. There's a solid block running thru' the center of the body, so the bass isn't microphonic at all nor produce any feedback, unlike other semi hollows (center block violin basses -the Epi Viola I had included- are still way too microphonic, this is 100% like a solid body in that regard). And those big single coil pickups are around J position so it really sounds like a Jazz, but with extra warmth/girth to it (humbucker lows) and some more delicate/detailed highs. Also has RIDICULOUS SUSTAIN, the lows keep pushing my preamp longer than any of my other basses (my main axes are a couple Stingray5s). IME it's much more versatile than your usual semi-hollow bass. BTW, the low B is pretty decent, unlike that of the Ibby AGB. I got my WPS Star Bass with a nice padded bag (the bass is strong enough not to need a case) for 600€ less than 2 months ago from a guy in Italy (for some reason these are way easier to spot in the 2nd. hand market there than here in Spain). It's quite a good price considering used RockBass versions are no less than 700€ used 'round here and the bass is undistinguishable from a German ProSeries (same exact materials, hardware and pickups/electronics). I'd wanted this bass for the last decade. The bass had a major turnoff for me. The strap pin at the heel is USELESS, HANGS HORRIBLY, as happens with almost any bass of this type, makes the bass tilt forward facing the ground. I solved this by relocating the strap pin to the right place, for which I "solidified" the tip of the upper horn with epoxy, real easy and STRONG, and now it hangs great, as any bass would. The bass doesn't neckdive much but it's definitely neck heavy, moving the strap pin helped mitigate this issue too. Not as light a bass as a violin, still nothing unbearable, little over 4 kilos. Oh, and regarding the TRBX range, well, besides being very different from the rest of options you present, IME it sounds generic, not bad instruments at all, just unremarkable as per tone (or "tone of its own"). Again, if you're between a traditional solid body and hollows/semi-hollows, the Star Bass could be the perfect intermediate solution. It's currently my sole 5 string 2 pickup fretted bass and I'm confident I'll not only do unplugged or classic or black stuff but also punk/HC/metal the crap out of it.

Great looking basses. But I think the definite test should be price vs. SOUND CLIPS, gentlemen. That's what gives a real idea of bang, don't you think? Sincerely happy 4 all you guys who have a 300-400£ concept of "cheap". I live in Spain, plus I was born in Argentina, thus my concept of cheap is more "latin minded" 🤣 I got an unbranded Jazz Bass with a body probably cut & finished by someone on acid, and an unusable neck (truss rod did nothing) for 38€. Saved all other parts and got the cheapest (basswood) body and neck I could get from AliExpress (51€ more). Bridge is great, tuners are OK, but those pickups (unbranded, as everything in this bass) sound AWESOME. I've had 2 MIJ Fender Jazzes in the '90s and none sounded this good. Neck is thicker than I'd like (I'm a skinny neck freak) but it still plays nice. To be fair I added a Hipshot D-tuner, but its cost is more than amortized, that tuner has been with me for almost 2 decades in different basses. That was my second DIY, early this year. My first, a thomann P-style kit (88€) I got as a present in 2016, has been reworked a couple times. It's now a reverse P + J fretless 5er. Still haven't spent 50€ over that original cost (+50€ more to equip it with LaBella LTFs) and it's provided me with MANY days of mod fun (links to several stages of it's history in YouTube description). J pickup is not the one you see in the video anymore, it's a 5 x big pole 16mm spacing cheapo' now.

1997 Ray 5er. I have a 2nd one (from 2003, blue with rosewood, pretty "regular" wood) that could serve me exactly the same, but I like this one better.

STRAP PIN RELOCATION, thought I'd share (also valid for other semi-hollows/hollows). Even tho' this bass is balanced enough (slightly neck divey, stays horizontal) the neck side pin location (at the joint) plus the arched back make it flip it forward (pickups face down). It takes my left (fretting) hand to exert a twisting force, plus my right forearm to push harder on the binding to keep the bass aligned to a comfortable playing position. This is how it cames stock... Every single StarBass user complains about this. I know people "solve" this by using a stance with the bass on your right side and fretting hand in front, alla' Jack Cassady... I'm not into that as my constant stance, so after some thinking I decided to relocate the pin to the upper horn. Now that's a hollow horn, laminate being no thicker than 6mm, and there's nothing behind. There's no access to the interior anywhere near the horn, not even the neck pickup, as the solid center block of the body encloses the pickups. So the only access point is the f-hole. After much thinking about blocks of wood to fill the tip of the horn (mostly beyond my skills) it occurred to me that it could be filled with epoxy. First I was thinking a syringe and some tubing thru' the f-hole. Ended up doing it all thru' the pin hole. First I drilled a small hole (1.5mm bit) in the spot I wanted the pin, then "threaded" it with the pin screw and took it off... After that I masked the zone with paper tape (just in case of any accidental drip) and turned the bass around, horns pointing down . Then mixed some 2 part epoxy glue, sucked 5ml into a syringe (no needle), injected it thru' the screw hole, then screwed the pin in tightly. I let it rest upside down for half an hour (according to instructions it cures in 5-10min). I took all the masking tape off, cleaned and voilá... This is the best shot I could take of the interior (using my mobile and a tiny mirror, all thru' the upper f-hole)... The clear area in the center is the little "pool" of epoxy that formed inside the tip of the upper horn. You can also see the tip of the screw coming out a couple mm. I just did a very light test (it's cured, but reaches maximum strength past 24 hours) and "prima facie" it both solves the flipping forward issue and also helps balance, doesn't go horizontal now, tends to stay where you put it. I'll tell for sure once I get to rock it at couple hour rehearsals/gigs. I think this is the easiest, cleanest solution and probably one of the strongest. Apparently many people do this to their Epiphone Jack Cassadys, Gibson 335s and the sort.