Huge Hands

On my personal level, I have a massive enjoyment of watching R&B/Hip Hop/Nu Soul etc played by real musicians rather than listening to an album based on samples. This is why I love checking out new artists on Tiny Desk, Jools Holland etc. I don't think I would have searched them out/paid to see them otherwise. This is why I love live shows and would hate to lose them fully from mainstream TV. It goes with the argument I used to have with the guitarist in our vintage R&B band who wanted every note played verbatim from the original records - I used to argue that the original musos (probably not the guys who cut the tracks anyway) would have taken them on the road and changed them up over time. Hence wanting to see them further down the line live too.

So the gist I'm getting from this is: We still want a live music show on TV. We don't want Jools or his Boogie Woogie Piano. We are scared of getting someone like Chris Evans/Jo Whiley/Lauren Laverne instead, so is it better the devil.....? That pretty much sums up my own feelings. My concern is those that seem to think a live music show is not required at all. I'm too old to be classed as a "yoof" any more, so what do I know?

Probably dBu or dBV of the line level, not dBSPL in terms of acoustic energy. As someone said, a fancy lighty up thing for your rack....

I thought that too but just looked it up and he'd just turned 20 at Woodstock. Maybe he was 16 or 17 when he joined? Still very young and mega talented though!

My advice would be to try it for a bit. As I have said many times before, although I agree the tuners look cheap, my V7 hardly goes out of tune, even when being transported in a gig bag. I'm not sure why everyone is so quick to get rid of the originals?

When my first wife left home, I thought "Sod you, I'm going to put the double bass back in the dining room", after she had insisted it was relegated to a corner in the hall. Before our (then) 2 year old son came to stay for his first weekend, I leant it into a corner of the dining room and tried banging and knocking it. "That's not going anywhere" I thought... Little did I know he would manage to get behind it and push it. Like a felled tree it tipped forward.. The neck hit the archway into the lounge and the whole thing exploded on its many seams. I was left with a neck and several panels. It was a "cheapy" Gear 4 Music one, but still cost me £400 of my finest kebab tokens at the time. It took a long time to find someone who was able to glue it back together under tension without it exploding again... 7 years later, I still haven't let him forget it 😂

And the award for over patronising whilst not getting the joke goes to....

Hi Pete, I play the same in a wind band so will try to help a little, although I'm not the greatest at theory. I was told that Tuba is written an octave below bass guitar, so the B two ledger lines below the stave on a tuba part is the same as the B on the second line of a stave of a BG part in terms of pitch and voicing. With this in mind, I once had a visiting conductor (who was also a pro west end bass player) who told me "just transpose everything you read up an octave". He was probably right, but as I play a 5, I like to keep the notes as low as possible so play the low C's and D's as much as I can, mainly to help the band "rumble". The only thing that worked for me was to learn the low notes as written. I still struggle when I come across a fast run and have to jump it up an octave, especially if I've started low and run out of fretboard! If you have access to their library, a lot of wind band scores often have a string bass or electric bass guitar part which is written in your octave. Be warned though, if you're the only bass player, if they are different and not just transposed, the tuba parts often have BG cues, but the BG parts don't have tuba so you may be sitting there resting whilst everyone is looking at you wondering where the low end is! My only other tip is, if there are tuba players, concentrate on playing the main music. Any fiddly semiquaver bits - let the tubas handle them and just pretend you're playing at this point 😉

Welcome. I did a similar switch, although a lot earlier on in my musical journey. The only problem I found was I kept getting invited to join bands that needed both a drummer and bass player, and often ended up back on the drums as it was much easier to find bass players (not good ones might I add) than drummers. I do try to keep my feet (and hands) in both camps as much as I can though!

Quote: Anyway, back on subject, sometimes mic'ing up the percussion can get a little ... strange. Thanks @Happy Jack - that made my day! That tractor sounds a lot more reliable and smokes less than a lot of drummers I know!

Interesting that my 16 year old 2L petrol Honda C-RV which loves to drink the stuff is exempt from this!

Hi Andy, I guess I'm a bit the opposite of you. I was gigging a lot until early last year when I got sick. Nothing life threatening, but enough that I had to drop out of my various bands. I can manage about an hour and a half with the bass, then I get too sore/tired. Lugging gear around is hard because I've spent so long housebound, my back muscles can't cope. I keep hearing little projects that I could get involved in, but I'm not well enough and they pass me by and fizzle out. I keep looking at my gear and wondering if I should move some on, but I'm desperate to get back into it! I've just been referred to a new hospital/specialist, so I'm hoping my problems will get better soon! I recently tried to be a good person and permanent loan a friend's teenage son my old gigging Squier bass (the one I used before I got my Sire). I wasn't using even when I was well, and should be happy it's being used, but when I see photos of it on his Facebook, I get reminded of the gigs I played on it, and want it back! How silly, I know!

My question would be - has your drummer played to click before? As a former drummer, I tried it for the first time in a studio setting back in my uni days. I thought I would need to hear the click really well and got them to turn it up and up - til it was almost bashing my ear drums across my head into each other! Suffice to say, it wasn't great playing or a great track. A few years later, when working as a live sound engineer, I spoke to one of the pro drummers about it and listened to his click during a rehearsal, it was much quieter. He had it at a level where you barely heard it, then if you started falling behind/speeding up, your brain would suddenly notice it and concentrate on it. When I then tried it a year later at these sort of levels with my own band, it worked really well for me. When on time, the click almost disappears and you are able to enjoy the music. As others have said, depending on what is on the track, you may not need to hear it at all, especially if it is washy strings or effects. I'm saying this because in my opinion, some drummers will never get their heads round playing with a click. Some may just need some adjustment on their levels and then get it fine. Apologies if your drummer is well experienced and knows this all already!

Careful what you wish for - you could end up with Chris Evans....

As a kid, when I first started saying I wanted to be a drummer, my Dad's mate would lend me cassette tapes of Buddy rich just soloing constantly for about 60mins. It used to turn me right off. However, I was later given a tape of him playing with his big band, and in a musical context, thought he was amazing.

They (Steve White) claimed it was the top drummers mentioned by other drummers. He also said putting a list together was tricky - "...the 30+ drummers involved in this program... " which would suggest only a vote of 1.5 was needed to get on the list of 20! One drummer (the guy from the Libertines) suggested Weckl, Colauita and Jim Keltner were obvious disciples of Steve Gadd, which was obviously their single justification for not including them as Gadd was on there. I totally agree that Grohl is nowhere near their talent, but I guess if you ask drummers who grew up with Nirvana who their most influential drummer was? I must admit that watching by Nirvana unplugged back in the day, I was inspired to try Hot Rods and used them for many years in low level gigs. I don't think the show was perfect at all, but there were some interesting interviews and playing. EDIT: @ezbass according to my Sky box that was episode 4 of 4, but happy to have more!

Dave Grohl is on the list. Dave Weckl did partake in the program - his Buddy Rich impersonation (playing, not personally) was very impressive.

Sorry NJ, I did wait nearly a week for this reason. I can't keep everyone happy 😉

Yes! Nigel Olssen! Forgot about him too! I have to admit I just had to Google Dave Mattacks, so maybe these lists are doing their job!

I'm also fairly sure that in the first episode, when they used a clip of James Brown in his Bootsy period and very artistically split the screen/graphics to show/name Jabo and Clyde, it wasn't actually Clyde in the clip. It's been bugging me that, I'm sure the internet would provide the answer...

Good point. I think I heard someone briefly say his name but surprised he wasn't more prominent.

Did anyone else watch the whole 4 episodes? In the last one, they did a list of the "Top 20 Drummer's Drummers" - basically the top ones mentioned by the contributors. They are below. Discuss! Note before you get angry, even the program (Steve White) said it wasn't the definitive list, it was just theirs, so don't take it too seriously. No surprises with most choices, but I just thought it would be good to hear people's thoughts. Like they said, if it inspires someone to go check someone out, it's worth it. 1. Buddy Rich 2. John Bonham 3. Hal Blaine 4. Ringo Starr 5. Gene Krupa 6. Dave Grohl 7. Louie Bellson 8. Bill Ward 9. Billy Cobham 10. Ian Paice 11. Neil Peart 12. Earl Palmer 13. Ginger Baker 14. Steve Gadd 15. Cindy Blackman 16. Dave Daddy Kane (didn't get mentioned in all 4 episodes until the list) 17. Carlton Barrett 18. Jeff Pocaro 19. Clyde Stubblefield 20. Keith Moon Personally, and I am by no means an expert nor right, I was surprised they had Jeff Pocaro and not Bernard Purdie, as he just went further with BP's idea? Also, with Cindy Blackman, it felt like they had put her in because they felt they had to include a female? I admit she is good (and most likely much better than I ever was), but top 20 ever? Some of my personal idols that didn't make the series (not necessarily the list) were Mitch Mitchell (surprisingly barely mentioned at all) the Motown drummers, Al Jackson Jr (Stax), Greg Errico and UK drummer Pete Ray Biggin. I did love hearing Jabo Starks humbly praising Clyde Stubblefield as though he was nothing in comparison! I also have renewed love for Ian Paice, both his drumming and his personality after watching this series. ...and no doubt the most inflammatory bit for some - I totally agree with Ringo's inclusion - he was a massive influence on me.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but think this is some sort of penis extension bragging thing...and I say that as a former drummer myself. It also reminds me of the percussionist at the concert band I play with. There is a separate guy who plays drum kit, but he will show up half an hour early to wheel out glockenspiels, xylophones, gongs, tubular bells, timpani, congas etc etc, just to end up playing "ping" on a triangle on one piece before having to put it all away again. He's a lovely bloke and has a lot more patience than me....

I used to work with Bobby G's version on the holiday camp circuit about 15 years ago. It was quite a litigious mess. If I remember correctly, Mike Nolan and David Van Day (Dollar) had joined forces and were doing hits from both, but when Mike quit, DVD kept plugging away calling himself Bucks Fizz, or something like that. However, I think all the legal stuff has forced a wedge/hatred between Bobby and the rest of the original members. Shame, I used to think Bob was a lovely bloke when I knew him. His missus used to bring us cakes!