Rick's Fine '52

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1336926819' post='1652834'] I expect quite a few similar comments. The ultimate Marmite bass perhaps? [/quote] The same colour too!!

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1336923441' post='1652768'] [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230790211682?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649"]These[/url] don't come around too often. [/quote] Thank God for that!!

Another one on the bay now..... [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gretsch-broadkaster-Bass-Guitar-MINT-2004-MODEL-G6119BO-COUNTRY-CLASSIC-/130695944668?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item1e6e15d9dc#ht_707wt_1185"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gretsch-broadkaster-Bass-Guitar-MINT-2004-MODEL-G6119BO-COUNTRY-CLASSIC-/130695944668?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item1e6e15d9dc#ht_707wt_1185[/url]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1336863494' post='1652177'] Fender might have beaten you to it. [/quote] Isn't that an early Squier-series model??

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1336856706' post='1652110'] Stared at that for ages waiting for the picture to load properly and not be stretched. [/quote] Fine on mine, that's how they are!! They're not one of Leo's finest moments!

Personally, I think Fender basses with maple necks and black blocks are truly ghastly, but many love these, and this has to be the rarest bass with this configuration. I've seen a lot of vintage gear over the years, but never one of these! Not everyone's cup of tea, including me, but worth a look, a rare bird indeed. (Not sure how much is left on that truss rod though! ) [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1969-Fender-Bass-V-unique-custom-black-maple-Fingerboard-case-/130682045515?pt=Gitarren&hash=item1e6d41c44b#ht_17373wt_1033"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1969-Fender-Bass-V-unique-custom-black-maple-Fingerboard-case-/130682045515?pt=Gitarren&hash=item1e6d41c44b#ht_17373wt_1033[/url]

[quote name='mushers' timestamp='1336815353' post='1651379'] i have to ask why does that bass on ebay have a strap button on the bak of the headstock ? was that the norm [/quote] As Luke says, this is for people to wear the stap long, like acoustic guitar players, which also aided balance, not that Fender basses ever had any neck dive issues. [quote name='jezzaboy' timestamp='1336825843' post='1651599'] It was so that upright bass players could play the bass in the upright position if they desired, more than likley to persuade doubtfull upright players to switch to the "new" style. I have never seen a pic of anyone using one like that though. Jez [/quote] This is actually a myth and completely untrue. If this were true, and it was to help players adjust during their transition from the upright bass, then it would have been introduced almost 10 years earlier. The rear strap button didn't appear until late '59/early '60, over 8 years after the Precision was first available.

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1336780931' post='1651157'] It surprises me that the original Fenders were red rather than brown - every one I've ever seen is brown rather than red (unless it's been replaced). I am 100% sure the 62 was 4 ply though. It is on every reissue Fender (as opposed to Squier - I am well aware of the CV having 3ply) have ever made and I am surprised that the Squier JV 62s ever came with a 3ply as that is such a basic error. Mine was definitely manufactured with a 4ply plate. The one in your pic in the left looks 4ply to me I can see a black line splitting the white. - or am I seeing things? [/quote] The one on the left in my pic is an original from '60, and its 4 ply, as should be W/B/W/T, as would a '62, as you say. The first JV's (I'm talking first 2 months here), were 3-ply. I've never seen a brown tort guard on an original vintage Fender, and I know my vintage Fenders. I think you are just describing the originals as brown yourself, which is maybe personal interpretation (To be fair, when looked at alone, they could easily be described as brown, but when put alongside a reissue brown tort guard, the difference will be obvious). The red ones (Whilst not very accurate still), are far more a match for the originals than brown. Brown just looks wrong. Fender have never managed to accurately make good torty guards though. I've seen Custom Shop stack knob Jazz's for sale at £2500, with a shocking brown guard, that just looks terrible. They still sell 'em though!

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1336779516' post='1651136'] I have a Fiesta Red 62 JV serial JV80694 which I have owned from new. It is 100% original. it has a brown tort 4ply plate. The original 62 Fenders did too. The Japanese tried to make the 62JV as authentic a reissue as possible and my understanding is that all the 62 JVs had brown 4ply plates. [/quote] Trust me, all of what you said is not true, you have been misinformed. Your JV is a late one from the SN, so I'm guessing 1984, I have seen all sorts of guards on these, including brown, so I'm sure it is original (I actually said in my quote that i didn't know much about the later ones, as they've never interested me). I was talking about the first issue JV's as the OP referred. They all have 3-ply tort guards (Except for the '57 obviously, which had a single ply white). Original Fenders ('59-'65) did not have a brown tort guard. They had a nitrate tort guard, more red, often referred to as pepperoni. (Pic attached below, of a 1960 guard next to my 2 JV's, pics quite dark though) The 1st series JV's [i]were[/i] very authentic, right down to the close thread tuners, body routs, contours etc. But these soon deteriorated from as early as June 1982, when the first changes were made. Numerous changes were made to the specs until the final JV's in late '84, which bore little resemblance to the first series.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1336778803' post='1651123'] Let me put it this way- if I did sell mine for £1200 (which I couldn't as I don't have the original pup - anyone got one they want to sell me?) [/quote] The pickup you need is sitting in my '58 project Relic ('57 JV), currently in the FS thread. You can buy it, switch the pups, get your JV back up to full value, then sell on the '58. Everyone's a winner!!

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336778386' post='1651113'] Ok I'll explain but if you want to infer that I am acting like a school kid or accuse me of not being able to grasp a simple concept that I have been discussing all day then I'll have to say ta-ta. You said that Bravewood were actually ethically worse than your copy because they could be passed off as originals. You have gone to amazing lengths to produce a lovely example which you are openly advertising as a copy and not priced as an original. Once it sells (maybe to someone we've not seen around here much before) what guarantee do you have that they will not try to sell it on as an original. Going by what you said in your ad, most people would find it hard to tell... especially when there are fine details like the pencil dating. Most fakes brought up on these pages are easily debunked by guys such as yourself... who better to buy a fake from with the intention of ripping someone off than from the expert himself. "Ethically" they are the same. Perhaps my choice of the phrase "pot-kettle-black" was a little over simplistic for the internet in this instance (given that you have a vested interest and a strong desire to defend) but I was trying to keep to my comment as light-hearted as all my others in this thread and simply draw a comparison to the two identical possible outcomes. [/quote] Yeah, I got all that, the bit you are missing, is that (And I don't know your experience of such things, so from your comments, I have to make an assumption) anyone who was genuinly in the market for a 1958 Fender Precision, would not be fooled, even for a second by my bass. My ad says that i went to great lengths to source period correct parts, where possible. But it cannot be confused with the real thing, unless you have seen, handled, and inspected many vintage basses, you may not be able to understand what i mean, because from a picture it looks great, but it cannot be confused with a real one...not by [u]anyone[/u] buying it. Yes, its far better than a CS Relic, or Roadworn, but they can be told apart from an original from 100yards by someone buying. As for your comment "who better to buy a fake from with the intention of ripping someone off than from the expert himself", that is truly offensive, especially as I'm clearly stating what it is, and selling the bass for £700??? I'm not ripping anyone off. To the novice, it could confuse, but a novice isn't gonna be spending £10k on something he knows nothing about, so it's never gonna happen, no-one is ever going to be mis-sold my bass. Bravewood's are better, and that's why the good ones are £2k+, because they are [i]that[/i] good, and can be mis-sold. We'll have to agree to disagree, as I cannot make my point any clearer, sorry.

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336776808' post='1651081'] You are implying that have have a problem with your advert. It is none of my bee's wax. But it is pertinent to this debate. [/quote] Yes, but i replied making it very simple, and that the comparism wasnt there, anyway, this is boring. If you were genuinly buying a £10k bass, you wouldnt be conned, thats what i said. Nothing more.

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336776690' post='1651076'] Your assumption of my understanding of the situation is inaccurate and offencive. [/quote] feel free to explain yourself then. You said pot kettle black to my quote, which was amusing, as it was anything but, I replied. Wheres the offence??? God, basschat is becoming very angry and aggressive, I've been reading all sorts of threads over the last few days, lots of anger out there, and people getting offended by nowt. like being back at school.

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336776445' post='1651068'] I didn't miss any point mate. I can read. An expert such as yourself will spot it in seconds but I think it's fair to say that a decent percentage of Basschaters will not be able to tell that yours is not genuine even if they held it in their own hands. [/quote] Maybe, but they are also not going to spending £10k then are they, otherwise they would know exactly what they were buying. Jeeez. are you taking the p or for real??

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336775715' post='1651051'] Pot... kettle... black? [/quote] Anyway, Bravewood are a company, making money out of making replica guitars (Very well I might add), mine is a one-off replica that i made for myself, and is advertised as such. Point.....missed......yes.

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336775715' post='1651051'] Pot... kettle... black? [/quote] Not at all, you've missed my point entirely. I even referenced my bass in my post. I said, that Bravewoods could be passed off as the real thing, because they are that good. Mine is not, it has repro catalogs (All reprinted copies of these, contain the printed type "Vintage reissue catalog by Vintage Press' typed inside, so you'd have to be blind not to see this, and extremely dumb to try and sell it as original, as it would be returned within 5 seconds. Mine is advertised as a replica, quite clearly, and wouldn't fool anyone spending £10k. Bravewoods could, because they [i]are[/i] that good. Odd thing to say??

Oh, and another thing, Bravewood for example, are widely regarded and highly prized instruments, to which I've never heard a bad word or criticism (They are stunning replica's, no doubt), but they were all hand made, with Fender decals added, I know, I've seen them, many of us have. They were never pictured with the decals, for copyright reasons on the Bravewood site, but they were all shipped to their customers with them applied, because that's what the customers wanted. No different to some of the sellers people are criticising. These are actually ethically worse though, because many that I've seen [i]could[/i] be passed off as originals, and probably have been?!!

[quote name='The Bass Doc' timestamp='1336756248' post='1650658'] Compare my effort to allow full disclosure of the Allparts brand (literally burned in) to examples where serial numbers are used, artificial distress wear imposed and (with apologies to Rick's Fine '58) pencilled dates are added. Much more likely to fool someone one day. [/quote] Interesting thread, the intelligent parts anyway! Do people really think the added neck date will fool anyone. I know my onions when it comes to vintage Fenders, and I don't know anyone that I have ever met, who, when spending £10k+ on a bass, would be fooled by that?? There's 1001 reasons why my replica bass isn't a genuine £10k bass, and no-one would be fooled, no-one, or try and pretend otherwise. I made it as a replica to my own original, for my own use. Sadly its time to move it on. The neck is original Fender, so no issue there regarding the decal. Personally, I've never added a Fender decal to something that wasn't a Fender, I have however, removed a Fender decal, refinished and aged a neck, and re-applied a Fender decal, which I don't believe is a crime, even on basschat? I think people get far too hung up on stuff like this. I'm not pretending its something it isn't, much like the seller of the squier referenced in the OP. I have seen, as we all have, some pretty terrible copies and re-badged things around though, which, right or wrong is gonna happen, thats life....sadly. Fake watches, fake clothes, fake guitars, been going on for yonks, doesn't make it right though. It's also, to me anyway, different if someone's making a replica, and clearly advertising it as a replica, to someone blatantly trying to mislead though. Oh, and for the record, the first 'Squier' guitars, were branded as 'Fender-Squier Series' instruments in April 1982, not 'Squier by Fender', that came much later.

I have the 'pair' referred to above. With respect, I'm afraid you're wrong on the plate, the original 1st series (only made for 3 months), have 3 ply guards (Black/White/Tort). The plate looks right to me, I can't see any reference in the ad to it being a 3 or 4 though? I don't know what model you have, but the original guards are what they call red tort, if yours is the brown tort, then to my knowledge (Pretty good on JV's), its not original. If you have a later version though, it may be, I dont know much about the later models. This is priced right for a 1st series JV in my opinion, they are extremely rare. The later Squier decal basses are typically around half the price of these. The Jazz's are a little more than the P's too. In a more bouyant market this would have been sold at this price.