Graphite necks...

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Fat Rich' post='931125' date='Aug 20 2010, 04:56 PM']Interesting reading, thanks for posting![/quote]
+1. A good read!

[MB1]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='931065' date='Aug 20 2010, 04:03 PM']I'm not sure. I love Modulus, and the flaked effect of the neck looks great (I hate the cheesy "Thousand naked ladies dancing" name or whatever it was they call it though!). However, their pricing is outrageous. I'm also of the opinion that Status do the best graphite products.

Moses have always been a cheap option but I hear they've improved by massive leaps in recent years and are a viable alternative to the more expensive options. The old problems with them included excessive weight, poor casting and shoddy fretwork. They have improved great though, which is encouraging.[/quote]

MB1.
...Have you any Idea how much it costs to get a "Thousand Naked ladies Dancing?".
...My Vote goes to Status!...They are Local.... and do do some Exceedingly Good Graphite!..(Not Good with Cakes though?)..apparently?

[Chris2112]

For me, the entire package of Status is far better than Modulus and the rest of the competition. The competition is incredible, but Status just feel "right". They look amazing, the sound incredible and thanks to Mark King and Jonas Hellborg, they're incredible cool!

[gafbass02]

another status fan here, although my last status neck now resides with davemuadib, who also loves it, they really are top quality stuff

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='930758' date='Aug 20 2010, 03:40 AM']Really? What specifically made you return it?[/quote]
I'll send you a PM

[OutToPlayJazz]

[quote name='MB1' post='931151' date='Aug 20 2010, 05:32 PM']MB1.
...Have you any Idea how much it costs to get a "Thousand Naked ladies Dancing?".
...My Vote goes to Status!...They are Local.... and do do some Exceedingly Good Graphite!..(Not Good with Cakes though?)..apparently?[/quote]

I've never had a cake at the Status factory, but yes, the products are indeed exceedingly good!

The price difference on the various different manufacturers are odd yes, but a lot of it is down to the wildly fluctuating currencies these days. Both that and the fact that US manufacturers think they just need to change the pound sign for the dollar sign to make a quick buck. They all do it.

As for graphite technology, Status is roughly twenty years ahead of the competition in technological terms and the quality control as you all know by now is peerless.

Rich.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='931583' date='Aug 21 2010, 01:30 AM']I'll send you a PM[/quote]

Very interesting. Thanks for the info.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='931620' date='Aug 21 2010, 08:07 AM']I've never had a cake at the Status factory, but yes, the products are indeed exceedingly good!

The price difference on the various different manufacturers are odd yes, but a lot of it is down to the wildly fluctuating currencies these days. Both that and the fact that US manufacturers think they just need to change the pound sign for the dollar sign to make a quick buck. They all do it.

As for graphite technology, Status is roughly twenty years ahead of the competition in technological terms and the quality control as you all know by now is peerless.

Rich.[/quote]


Roughly 20 years ahead of the competition? How do you figure that?

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='931634' date='Aug 21 2010, 08:41 AM']Roughly 20 years ahead of the competition? How do you figure that?[/quote]

cos OTPJ has been banging on about status on basschat for 20 years and the modulus he just bought is still in the post!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='931653' date='Aug 21 2010, 09:28 AM']cos OTPJ has been banging on about status on basschat for 20 years and the modulus he just bought is still in the post![/quote]

Ha ha!

[stingrayPete1977]

Its a shame Captain Ben never got that job making carbon fibre stuff for F1 cars, I bet he could of made you one by moulding it round my Squier neck!

[SignsOfDelirium_bassist]

Always wondered, is there actually any severe tonal differences between the different brands? I'm sure there's minor differences between each neck, but is there anything that really sets a status apart from a modulus, in terms of sound?

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='SignsOfDelirium_bassist' post='931805' date='Aug 21 2010, 04:05 AM']Always wondered, is there actually any severe tonal differences between the different brands? I'm sure there's minor differences between each neck, but is there anything that really sets a status apart from a modulus, in terms of sound?[/quote]
I've never met anyone who can tell the difference [b]by sound alone[/b] in a graphite or wood neck. I've met many who claim they can and who will get very angry if challenged about it but have still never met anyone who can tell the difference by sound alone. Hypothetically there should be some minuscule difference and that's enough to argue on the internet but I don't think it can really be heard.

If graphite truly had it's own tone why is it impossible to hear graphite rods in a neck without knowing they are there first?

Sooner or later everything in a bass devolves into a tone shaping item that the untested experts will claim they can hear.

Now as for difference between a Status and a Modulus, sure. But you have different pickups in different locations and you can't simply claim to be able to isolate only what you want in the tones.

So you'll get people who will claim one sounds different from the other but try to pin them down on exactly what the difference is and then the fun begins Ask them how does graphite affect the response at 1220 hertz? 1260 hertz? Then get out of the room for your safety

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='932347' date='Aug 21 2010, 11:39 PM']I've never met anyone who can tell the difference [b]by sound alone[/b] in a graphite or wood neck. I've met many who claim they can and who will get very angry if challenged about it but have still never met anyone who can tell the difference by sound alone. Hypothetically there should be some minuscule difference and that's enough to argue on the internet but I don't think it can really be heard.

If graphite truly had it's own tone why is it impossible to hear graphite rods in a neck without knowing they are there first?

Sooner or later everything in a bass devolves into a tone shaping item that the untested experts will claim they can hear.

Now as for difference between a Status and a Modulus, sure. But you have different pickups in different locations and you can't simply claim to be able to isolate only what you want in the tones.

So you'll get people who will claim one sounds different from the other but try to pin them down on exactly what the difference is and then the fun begins Ask them how does graphite affect the response at 1220 hertz? 1260 hertz? Then get out of the room for your safety [/quote]

I think the earlier Status necks without truss rods had a much more distinctive sound, more the kind of sound you'd associate with graphite very hifi with more edginess than a wooden neck. The later necks with truss rods sound much more like a traditional bass and are therefore seem more versatile instruments.

I don't know if the same applies to Modulus necks though.

[ped]

Well all I can add is that Vigier are clearly the leaders in this area ;0)

I too can safely say I can tell the difference between a wooden and a graphite neck on a given bass, having owned two basses with both necks for comparison.

Never had any problems with graphite necks other than finding one which has no truss rod but perfectly fits my preferred amount of relief (almost zero). the Status had a truss rod but it did very little and wouldn't tighten far enough, but it was close enough.

Cheers
ped

[Lfalex v1.1]

Whilst I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of Vigier necks over the years, it is interesting that they've changed their approach several times;

S1: "Widening" Neck through with the brass (?) layer beneath the fretboard.
S2: Woven Graphite Neck-through. No truss rod. Phenolic fretboard.
S3: Graphite/Maple (10/90) Neck through. No Truss rod. Phenolic fretboard.
S4: Graphite/Maple (10/90) Bolt-on. No Truss rod. Phenolic fretboard.

So, it would seem that the Passion and Arpege have been modified over the years. The build quality has been consistently high, although they did have bonding issues with the S1 fretboards IIRC.
IMO Rodless basses have their own sound. They seem to sound "more" like the main neck material. It's only quite subtle, but some people might like it.
I personally think that slap sound better on basses with truss rods, as they seem to have a more ringing tone - I prefer my Streamline to my S3 Passion V. I reckon the all-graphite Vigier S2 would be better in this respect.

[Chris2112]

I truely believe that graphite necks are the way forward, although the Kubicki Ex Factors neck is an interesting one - 36 laminates of maple. Extremely stiff and bright and responsive as either of the Status basses I've owned. I recall someone on talkbass once mistook it for a graphite neck based on sound alone!


I've got some basses with awesome wooden necks but graphite just seems cooler. I'll hopefully be getting another Status soon anyway!

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Fat Rich' post='932512' date='Aug 22 2010, 01:45 AM']I think the earlier Status necks without truss rods had a much more distinctive sound, more the kind of sound you'd associate with graphite very hifi with more edginess than a wooden neck. The later necks with truss rods sound much more like a traditional bass and are therefore seem more versatile instruments.[/quote]
Is it adding metal that makes it sound like wood? What does edginess mean to you? My Fernandes Jazz is very edgy to me, much more than my Status was.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='934276' date='Aug 23 2010, 02:46 PM']I truely believe that graphite necks are the way forward, although the Kubicki Ex Factors neck is an interesting one - 36 laminates of maple. Extremely stiff and bright and responsive as either of the Status basses I've owned. I recall someone on talkbass once mistook it for a graphite neck based on sound alone![/quote]
That's very interesting that it would sound like graphite to someone (ignoring the 32" scale here) as the Kubicki has a lot in common with some graphite necks, as it's many 1/16" layers bonded together making it a composite neck. Using cellulose where the graphite necks use carbon.

Funny how the old Moses necks are said to sound like graphite when the overwhelming majority of the neck is resin.

If a "graphite composite" neck is the sound of graphite is a phenolic fingerboard the sound of paper?

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='934362' date='Aug 24 2010, 02:04 AM']That's very interesting that it would sound like graphite to someone (ignoring the 32" scale here) as the Kubicki has a lot in common with some graphite necks, as it's many 1/16" layers bonded together making it a composite neck. Using cellulose where the graphite necks use carbon.

Funny how the old Moses necks are said to sound like graphite when the overwhelming majority of the neck is resin.

If a "graphite composite" neck is the sound of graphite is a phenolic fingerboard the sound of paper?[/quote]

...Thinks...
I reckon you might have got something there (and whoever mentioned Moses necks sounding like graphite in spite of being mainly resin)
What do Kubicki necks, Carbon/Graphite Composite Necks and Phenolic fretboards all have in common?
Large quantities of adhesive/binding/bonding agents or resins. Perhaps it's those we can hear?

([b]insert manufacturer[/b]). [i]The sound of glue[/i]

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='934361' date='Aug 24 2010, 01:52 AM']Is it adding metal that makes it sound like wood? What does edginess mean to you? My Fernandes Jazz is very edgy to me, much more than my Status was.[/quote]

I don't think it's adding metal that changes the sound, I think it's because the graphite isn't rock solid like the old necks were. Probably less resin / glue and more flexibility.

My newish Status S2 Classic neck feels slightly springier because it can move a tiny bit like a wooden neck and I think that takes the hard edge off the sound. My Series 1 from '93 has more clarity and fret clatter because it's solid as a rock, but it's also got more bass and sustain despite not being as heavy as the newer S2. They've both currently got new DR Fat Beams on, both are 35" scale, headed 5 stringers and I'm directly comparing them acoustically as well as through some amps.

Same story comparing open strings my S2 fretless (truss rod) to my old Series 1 (no truss rod) although the S2 has a rosewood fingerboard which changes the sound considerably as soon as you fret a note.

[green]

i have to agree with dave.c
graphite necks feel very different, and knowing that you have a sturdy neck changes the situation.

had a vigier passion III too. nice bass, very light, and the neck never changed or got out of tune. although i didnt like the sound that much, but that has to do with personal taste.

also had a basslab, which was lovely too.
the skc bogart basses are lovely.

it seems like graphite necks have one thing in common: the sound is very even across the strings. after playing wooden instruments for a while, i was surprised how even the loudness of the strings and of the high / low frets were on graphite necked basses.
also, there is lots of ring and lots of low end.
(thats a thing ebony has too).

i wouldnt say that in graphite necks, we hear the "glue".
i'd say, we hear the material thats inside the neck, since the neck isn't made of graphite alone. there is some "filler" inside the graphite core.
on basslab basses, it's just air. others use some sort of foam.

if a trussrod makes a difference in sound is hard to tell, since it's hard to play the exact same bass with trussrod and without trussrod. but i'd say there is more difference in two fender maple necks then in the same graphite neck with or without trussrod.
i'd always prefer a carbon neck without trussrod.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='934362' date='Aug 24 2010, 02:04 AM']That's very interesting that it would sound like graphite to someone (ignoring the 32" scale here) as the Kubicki has a lot in common with some graphite necks, as it's many 1/16" layers bonded together making it a composite neck. Using cellulose where the graphite necks use carbon.

Funny how the old Moses necks are said to sound like graphite when the overwhelming majority of the neck is resin.

If a "graphite composite" neck is the sound of graphite is a phenolic fingerboard the sound of paper?[/quote]


I think with graphite necks, or indeed "resin" necks, what you're hearing is the general tonal properties of materials that are stiffer and more resonant than woods. With the Kubicki, I feel some of "graphite like" quality comes from the fact that it is naturally a very bright sounding bass with the ebony fretboard, maple body and well voiced active electronics. Furthermore, the 6 position preamp has some very bright sounds, especially in the basic active mode. In the hands of Stuart Hamm, the Ex Factor's most prominent user, it sounded very bright. Bright, but always full and resonant and never thin or clackety. With Vail Johnson, it sounded even fatter, but still incredibly well voiced and articulate - it would be easy to mistake it for sounding like it had a graphite neck and indeed, that was something that Phil looked at and eventually turned away from in order to find a more cost effective solution to having strong and highly resonant necks.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='934421' date='Aug 24 2010, 12:23 AM']...Thinks...
I reckon you might have got something there (and whoever mentioned Moses necks sounding like graphite in spite of being mainly resin)
What do Kubicki necks, Carbon/Graphite Composite Necks and Phenolic fretboards all have in common?
Large quantities of adhesive/binding/bonding agents or resins. Perhaps it's those we can hear?

([b]insert manufacturer[/b]). [i]The sound of glue[/i] [/quote]I think resin may be the majority of some of the others too. Graphite is very expensive, resin not so much. Modulus is laid up like fiberglass and that should be at least half resin and my Status was so heavy I felt it must have a lot of resin. Parkers are very light and don't sound hifi to me.

Glue could be it, but then we have to compare alaphatic resins to epoxies of many formulations. My guess would be they all have in common being marketed to non traditional bass players who like to crank the treble in the preamp. There's 11 wood basses at my house right now, pick any attribute that can only be had from graphite and I'll hand you a bass or two that can do it.

Glue isn't too farfetched. Many [i]experts[/i] have claimed there is a tone difference between 2 piece bodies and one piece versions. I don't believe them but they outnumber me. Most of the lore on glue is it's why plywood sucks or when promoting a one piece fingerboard/neck like on an old Fender it stops vibration from transmitting from the fingerboard to the neck.

It's hard to disprove people aren't hearing what is there. What's much easier is to prove they will hear things that aren't there. If you get an unfamiliar bass into an [i]experts[/i] hands and tell them it has graphite bars in the neck and they don't know it doesn't they will usually hear it. With a little coaxing you can usually get them to go on about the subtleties.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Fat Rich' post='934445' date='Aug 24 2010, 01:04 AM']I don't think it's adding metal that changes the sound, I think it's because the graphite isn't rock solid like the old necks were. Probably less resin / glue and more flexibility.[/quote]
Stiffness would be changed by removing graphite, the resin is flexible by design to counter the brittleness of graphite and is there to maintain shape more than being structure.