Graphite necks...

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='935535' date='Aug 24 2010, 04:00 PM']I think with graphite necks, or indeed "resin" necks, what you're hearing is the general tonal properties of materials that are stiffer and more resonant than woods.[/quote]
Stiffer would mean less resonant no? Resonance is a conformation in response to force and the stiffer something is the less it conforms. For example my opinions have little resonance

[Chris2112]

I think unfortunately we've evolved our craft too far, too quickly to actually be able to assess objectively what things sound like. Does maple sound brighter than rosewood? To my ears, yes, but perhaps this is just programming my ears have came to accept to fit whats being told to my brain.

I've seen some real "experts" on Talkbass looking buffoons over "is it a P or a J" blind tests.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='935596' date='Aug 24 2010, 09:54 PM']I've seen some real "experts" on Talkbass looking buffoons over "is it a P or a J" blind tests.[/quote]
I love those threads Especially those posters that will wait for the answers to be posted to chime in with "I knew that".

In one thread over there Roger Sadowsky admits that there is no way to tell the difference between maple and rosewood by sound either live or recorded. I respect him for that.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Vibrating G String

[RayFW]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='935842' date='Aug 25 2010, 12:21 PM']I love those threads Especially those posters that will wait for the answers to be posted to chime in with "I knew that".

In one thread over there Roger Sadowsky admits that there is no way to tell the difference between maple and rosewood by sound either live or recorded. I respect him for that.[/quote]
He must have changed his tune recently then.
Here is what he had to say about necks back in 2006:

"Just found this thread. Just had time to skim it. Here is the result of my 34 years experience building guitars and basses:

I am convinced that the fingerboard has a bigger tonal influence on the instrument than the body wood. In other words, the difference between a maple and rosewood fingerboard is greater than the difference between an alder and an ash body.

Of the woods I use, maple is the brightest and tightest. That is why it is the preferred wood among slap players. Rosewood is the sweetest and warmest. South American and Madagascar rosewoods are tighter than East Indian rosewoods. Ebony is in the middle regarding brightness, but it has the most "punch" (the most solid center to the note).

This is true regardless of the fret size, type of finish, or anything else. This is not "IMHO". This is "just the facts m'am".

Roger"

Here: [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2773682&postcount=105"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php...p;postcount=105[/url]

[Chris2112]

I know P basses sound old and wooly and Status Kingbasses are bright and snappy, but between that there are too many variables! I still stand by my love of graphite necks though, they are cool beyond cool.

[EBS_freak]

I'm tempted to give Graphite a go... I'll still stay with my opinion that the circuit has the biggest influence on the sound of the bass though. The stability and the fact that it is something different really appeals to me. Perhaps I should do an AB test on the same bass to see where we end up.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='936978' date='Aug 26 2010, 11:33 AM']I'm tempted to give Graphite a go... I'll still stay with my opinion that the circuit has the biggest influence on the sound of the bass though. The stability and the fact that it is something different really appeals to me. Perhaps I should do an AB test on the same bass to see where we end up.[/quote]


Of course, if you put some piss poor Precision pickups into a Status bass it'll sound dire. But with my Stealth bass, it was so ridiculously stable. It was a fair sized bass too and yet it weighed very little, yet felt like it could withstand a tank driving over it. I'm in talks over a new (to me) Status bass at the moment now!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='937299' date='Aug 26 2010, 04:21 PM']Of course, if you put some piss poor Precision pickups into a Status bass it'll sound dire. But with my Stealth bass, it was so ridiculously stable. It was a fair sized bass too and yet it weighed very little, yet felt like it could withstand a tank driving over it. I'm in talks over a new (to me) Status bass at the moment now![/quote]

Of course, I was thinking more along the lines of one set of top quality pickups with a top quality preamp can sound completely different when paired with another top quality preamp. Both can sound great, but completely different.

There's a guy on Youtube demoing his Brubaker with switchable preamps... and the difference is quite... well... astonishing!

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='RayFW' post='935866' date='Aug 25 2010, 04:47 AM']He must have changed his tune recently then.
Here is what he had to say about necks back in 2006:[/quote]
Here's 2007

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=341431&highlight=fingerboard+hear&page=2"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.p...hear&page=2[/url]

To approach this properly, you have to compare 2 virtually identical basses and change only one variable. Builders are in the best position to do this. [i][b]None of us who put wood high on top of the list claims that anyone listening to a record or a concert would hear the difference between a maple and a rosewood fingerboard or be able to identify one brand from another.[/b][/i] But it does make a difference to the player. And what one hears as a player affects how you respond to the instrument. The feedback you get from your instrument directly affects how you play the instrument.

This whole conversation is about you and your relationship with your bass. But for whatever it is worth, I have never had a customer who owns my basses contradict my opinion regarding wood and the tone of the instrument.

Roger

[Chris2112]

I guess on the feelings I get from graphite necks and the kubicki neck is a feeling of near invincibility. That's the stability and strength coming in to play. A friend of mine had a Geddy Lee jazz and it was a great player with a nice sound, but that neck was so thin and frail. Even in the modestly temperate North of England, the neck would shift with the weather. The action was low, but you could put it in it's case on a Monday night and it would be buzzing away on a Tuesday evening!

[Vibrating G String]

I like the invincibility description. I know what you mean about a thin wooden neck moving around, sometimes I can pull a bass out of a cold car, tune it, and then when it warms up it's out of tune and the action is a bit different. I think some of that is the metal in the strings changing temperature, maybe most of it. But graphite does seem so gosh darn stable I really hope to have a nice one someday.

Whether graphite is more stable or has some unique tone I don't know but I am sure it's damn sexy!!!

[Vibrating G String]

To further pick on this point

"None of us who put wood high on top of the list claims that anyone listening to a record or a concert would hear the difference between a maple and a rosewood fingerboard or be able to identify one brand from another."

Those of us who put the electronics and their placement high on the list can often tell the difference live or on a recording.

[Lfalex v1.1]

My Streamline withstood a 900+ mile drive across France stuffed in the boot of my car. In its soft bag. In the height of summer. With no issues at all. In fact, it's not had any stability issues at all.
Not that my Vigier's had any issues. It just won't fit in the boot of my car!

[martthebass]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='937771' date='Aug 27 2010, 07:04 AM']My Streamline withstood a 900+ mile drive across France stuffed in the boot of my car. In its soft bag. In the height of summer. With no issues at all. In fact, it's not had any stability issues at all.
Not that my Vigier's had any issues. It just won't fit in the boot of my car![/quote]

+1.

Never had to touch the truss rod on my Streamline even when I changed to higher gauge rounds.

I can't really tell the difference between wood and graphite on fretted (other than the very evev tone and lack of dead spots). I think electronics has a part to play, eg the Strealine is noticeably warmer than the S2 as Rich (otpj) demonstrated to me when I bought it from him.

On fretless though the difference is very apparent to me, I find resin boards to be too harsh and clacky with my (poor) technique.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='martthebass' post='937857' date='Aug 27 2010, 10:00 AM']+1.

Never had to touch the truss rod on my Streamline even when I changed to higher gauge rounds.

I can't really tell the difference between wood and graphite on fretted (other than the very evev tone and lack of dead spots). I think electronics has a part to play, eg the Strealine is noticeably warmer than the S2 as Rich (otpj) demonstrated to me when I bought it from him.

On fretless though the difference is very apparent to me, I find resin boards to be too harsh and clacky with my (poor) technique.[/quote]

Electronics : Defo - e.g. I have always found the Sadowsky preamp to be quite harsh to my ears. Great if you want that sound... but not a sound I like soloed. Funnily enough, I found that Sadowskys really cut the mix in a band situation though.

I think I have been lucky because I have never had to deal with any dead spots on any of my basses. I have played a couple of basses with dead spots and the fact that graphite doesn't have any is an advantage... but for me, not necessarily a big one because I haven't had to ever deal with dead spots. Maybe if I had, the appeal of graphite for not having dead spots would be greater. If that makes sense

I don't think I have ever played a graphite fretless. Maybe that is one to think about... For some reason that I can't quantify, I think I would still prefer a wooden fingerboard...

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='938050' date='Aug 27 2010, 01:08 PM']...........................

I don't think I have ever played a graphite fretless. Maybe that is one to think about... For some reason that I can't quantify, I think I would still prefer a wooden fingerboard...[/quote]

It definitely takes away the clickyness and adds a warmer tone without losing the consistency and punch of the graphite, I think it's the way to go too.

[EBS_freak]

What's that then? A wooden fingerboard instead of the pheno?

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='938186' date='Aug 27 2010, 03:42 PM']What's that then? A wooden fingerboard instead of the pheno?[/quote]

It's some kind of rosewood, looks very dark without much grain.

Sounds lovely!