Avoiding Rip Offs

[merello]

How to avoid getting ripped off on the internet
Mods, feel free to move this wherever you want, but I thought the classifieds was the most appropriate place to post this.


I get about 2 or 3 requests a month from people asking me to help them track down someone who has ripped them off on a transaction on eBay, HC, Bassgear, etc. I'm more than happy to help out, but the one thing I have noticed is that a lot of people don't protect themselves as much as they could. Here's a little checklist to go through that I posted over on the Dudepit that can help you guys avoid a lot of grief when doing a deal with someone you don't know.

In the future, I hope everyone here checks out people before they do business with them. A lot of you guys here buy and sell a lot of gear, and if you know the person...great. But if not make sure you get a home phone# a work phone # a cell phone# home address etc. check out the info too. Call the person. If you think they gave you a cell# as a home or work # - check it out here:
www.fonefinder.net/

It will tell you if it's a land line or a cell and what city it goes to.

Reverse the phone#s and addresses they gave you to see where they go. Argali is really good for this. You can also reverse the address.

Just go to www.argali.com and download their program.

If you think the address is a mail drop you can check that out as well at http://www.finaid.com/scholarships/maildropsearch.phtml

If you want to find out who owns the address they give you to send payment to you can also go to
http://www.netronline.com/public_records.htm

Select the state and county of the address. A lot of them have online databases, but you can call the tax assessor as well and find out who owns that property.

These are just a few of the free online resouces you can use to protect yourself and verify the information the seller gives you is accurate.

Ask for references from other people they have done business with. If I'm shelling out $100 for an effect pedal or $3000 for a bass, I want to know if the person is honest or not,

Make sure the info they give you checks out before you give up any of your hard earned cash. An honest seller won't be offended in the least when you ask them for this info.

Posted for info.

[munkonthehill]

these investigations ring the sound of a fellow sheriff officer hahahaha

[Dood]

I've Pinned the topic for now as I am sure it could be a useful resource to have. However, at the moment the information in the thread does appear to only be useful if you are in the US - or have, I guess, dealt with someone in the US as part of a transaction. (Obviously if it were a TalkBass thread!!)

Maybe we could put together useful links for other countries too?

[WalMan]

Wondered what the hell "reverse search" was 'til I checked the site quoted and realised it meant

• Reverse search like "whose phone number is this?"
• Reverse search for "what businesses are at/on this address/street?"

I should think things like Streetview might be quite useful for testing addresses for not being a potential mail drop and/or an actual residence now the UK is covered

[warwickhunt]

This is not meant to be an exhaustive or definitive list but simply a few guidelines generated from my experiences and intended for those with no, or limited experience, of buying from a private individual on an open forum. Follow all or some of the following rules and you might keep your hard-earned money a little safer.

1. First and most importantly – If something is too good to be true, then it probably is! If you are uncomfortable dealing with strangers over the Internet and it doesn’t feel right, leave it well alone, there will be another item along soon.
2. If someone registers on a site and immediately tries to sell something (especially expensive items) then unfortunately in my humble opinion it is probably better to assume that they are a scammer and that they are ‘guilty till proven innocent’! Harsh you say? YES but at least that way you don’t lose your money at the first hurdle. If someone joining a forum to sell something is genuine, then in order to gain trust they should be prepared to accept that they ‘may’ need to prove that they are who they say they are and that they really do have a particular item to sell.
3. Communicate with the seller. Be pleasant but don’t be afraid to ask questions… lots of them. If they are reluctant to respond then they may not know what they are doing. Ask targeted questions about the item and use technical vocabulary; if they don’t know the scale length, pick-up type or whether it has a JAN I or JAN II nut on their $3000 bass, what the heck are they doing owning it.
4. Ask for more pictures of the bass and BE SPECIFIC, ask for a close up shot of the back of the headstock, close up of the 12th fret inlay or whatever. If they can’t supply the images requested because the camera is broken or the bass is boxed up at a friend’s house ask them to borrow a camera/unpack the box and don’t accept stock pictures from the Manufacturers site etc.
5. If they are selling a Warwick Streamer P-Nut bass (insert bass model of your choice), put that title into the image search of a couple of search engines (Google etc.) and see if the image of the bass appears, the more time you have to check past the first page the better.
6. Do a search for the identical item in any online auction or sale sites (eBay, Craigslist, Gumtree, SuperAds etc.) you’d be amazed how often scammers just get images and descriptions from sales and post them verbatim.
7. Get a landline, mobile phone number and address from the seller; check if the phone number is in the phone book (not the end of the world if it isn’t as many are ex-directory)… and call them! You’d be amazed how people assume because they’ve been given a number that it must be OK. Put the address you’ve been given into something like Google Earth; does the address exist!
8. Ask if they are registered on any other forums, eBay Talkbass Basschat etc and do they have any feedback. If yes, check to see if the language used is similar to that used when communicating with you i.e. are they communicating with you in Pigeon English yet their posts on a forum are quite fluent. Also, if they give you a user ID’s on another forum, send PMs to those IDs to see what comes back as they may have given you a random ID that has a good rating but nothing to do with them.
9. Ask for the name of the band that they play in, then simply do an online search of their band name and location. It’d be unusual in this day and age for something not to flag up at all and if they’re selling a quality bass and/or gig rig yet claim they aren’t in a band... beware.
10. Check the person’s name, band name or user ID with Myspace, Facebook, Twitter or any of the social networking sites, does it tally with the location given?
11. Sleep on it, things can look different in the cold light of the next day. Don’t rush in and part with your money on first sight.
12. If you have doubts, ask other people what they think about a particular item (site Moderators in particular).

If all of the above seems a lot of hassle you should either go back to point 1) and act accordingly OR you seem to have plenty of spare cash that you are happy to gamble.

A few points of note:

Payment is a ‘whole new ballgame’!
This is simply my observations and guidelines that I adhere to. You may wish to add many of your own and even if a seller ticks everyone of the above boxes and you still feel uncomfortable… walk away.
Not everyone who registers for the first time on a forum is a scumbag scammer.
I am a cynical owld git… but I’ve not been scammed yet despite many years on eBay and (too) numerous National and International sales on various forums. ;0)

Edited June 20, 2010 by warwickhunt

[thepurpleblob]

I was just going to add that if you are selling something make absolutely sure have *cleared* funds before you ship. Cheques, for example, take ages to get past the point where the bank won't take the money back. The money being credited to your account means nothing. There's some quite ingenious stolen cheque scams doing the rounds. The classic is the old, "I need this item very quickly, I will send you twice the amount it's worth, when you get my cheque please write another cheque to my shipping agents". Needless to say, your cheque will clear and theirs will bounce.

I would also suggest that any kind of "over the wire" payment system where there is absolutely no paper trail is to be avoided.

If in the slightest doubt, ask your bank and get the name of the person (at the bank) you spoke to.

Regarding the EvilBay. I would go so far to suggest that you don't deal in a greater amount than you can afford to loose. My experience is that eBay and PayPal don't give a stuff if you get ripped off.

Edited June 20, 2010 by thepurpleblob

[gjones]

Also once you get the serial number google it to see if the bass has a history (or even if it's reported stolen).

[OldGit]

"or whether it has a JAN I or JAN II nut"
Er whassat?

All of this sounds great, except that phone checking thing in the OP says my mobile phone number is in Russia ...

Also remember that most people are honest and fair minded but check their references and all that other stuff anyway.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='OldGit' post='873021' date='Jun 20 2010, 09:45 PM']"or whether it has a JAN I or JAN II nut"
Er whassat?[/quote]

Put it this way, if you were selling an expensive Warwick bass and didn't know anything about Jan I/II/III I'd be a 'little' uneasy.

Seriously it relates to sellers knowing specific terminology for what they are selling... 'stack-knobs' may mean different things to different people but if someone were selling a vintage Jazz that had this feature and hadn't the foggiest idea what it was then alarm bells might ring!

[OldGit]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='873077' date='Jun 20 2010, 10:35 PM']Put it this way, if you were selling an expensive Warwick bass and didn't know anything about Jan I/II/III I'd be a 'little' uneasy.

Seriously it relates to sellers knowing specific terminology for what they are selling... 'stack-knobs' may mean different things to different people but if someone were selling a vintage Jazz that had this feature and hadn't the foggiest idea what it was then alarm bells might ring! [/quote]

Phew! It's a Warwick thing
Yup, I agree.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='872397' date='Jun 20 2010, 08:24 AM']5. If they are selling a Warwick Streamer P-Nut bass (insert bass model of your choice), put that title into the image search of a couple of search engines (Google etc.) and see if the image of the bass appears, the more time you have to check past the first page the better.
6. Do a search for the identical item in any online auction or sale sites (eBay, Craigslist, Gumtree, SuperAds etc.) you’d be amazed how often scammers just get images and descriptions from sales and post them verbatim.[/quote]

There's a tool here [url="http://www.tineye.com/"]tineye.com[/url] which lets you do a "reverse image search". It's down at the moment, but if this is stickied, it should be of use in a couple of weeks. It should pick up any other similar images.

[dougie]

All good sound advice guys,i lost a 3 month old laptop due to being too trusting/nieve tit,i was only here a day when i sold the T40(but stuck to your guidelines here,posted pics,serial num etc)and even better traded luckily enough with a member less than 20 miles away in person,internet theft pisses me off for some reason more than normal theiving,its not only the cash value your losing its the fact somethings taken from you that youve saved hard to get for some junkie b******d to rip off and flog to a secondhand shop for a fraction of the value.all finished ranting now

[clcheapshoes520]

good idea

[algmusic]

Good advice, guys..

Nice to feel safe ;-)

[4 Strings]

For an expensive bass or costly gear I would have to try it out first. Bought a couple of things from good honest people on this list and even from gumtree but had to go and try it out first each time. I bought my Stingray from someone on here, I went with no money to look and try it out, told him I was doing so, tried it out, had a good old chat with him too, and went back to buy it the following week. He was fine with all this, no reason why he shouldn't be. A lot of money (for me!) but I couldn't spend a wad on something as personal as a bass without knowing what it was like and gave me time for second thoughts too.

For anything over a hundred quid I'd need to try it out, even if its a bit of a journey, if I can't then I wait for something else. I would imagine that someone scamming would avoid this situation and so it might be an unintentional way of avoiding them too.

[MIJ-VI]

[url="http://computer.howstuffworks.com/efencing.htm"]How eFencing Works[/url]

[flippyfloop]

Quick heads up regarding musical instrument insurance.

Avoid E and L insurance.

This is a personal opinion after my personal experience with this horrendous company.

As you can see from the link, I'm not alone.

[url="http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews57547.html"]http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews57547.html[/url]

'Nuff said

[MIJ-VI]

A narrowly averted bogus Fender Bass VI buy:

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10151731&postcount=559"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php...p;postcount=559[/url]

[TMB]

Thanks all for having the time to write about their experiences with companies : )

feel like i have gained good knowledge.

[duncbassgit]

Some interesting stuff here. I just bought a Fender 60th anniversary flight case from a dealer in New York on ebay. I checked out his website and rang him before bidding.
I was convinced he was genuine as he emailed me more j.pegs and I could hear the customers in his shop over the phone!!
Duncbassgit

[Meljg]

Good comments above.....the great thing of the modern day is that when you may be a little suspicious, or have that uneasy gut feeling, go straight for google and search for the address....it may well come up. Earlier today I set about off loading an expensive bass....put it up here, and also gumtree.....very fast response from gumtree, very positively looking to buy....you wouldn't realistically expect that....and you certainly wouldn't be expecting a sale all but done and dusted within hours, without even a hint of a viewing. I googled up the email address now being given....comes straight up on musicradar. Ok, its easily spotted when someone hits you with an email of enquiry, then wishes you to respond a completely different name / email addy later down the line, but not always so obvious. As I said....google provides some very useful information at times!

[LukeFRC]

There was a thread stuck up here. (with an address) and rightly hidden by the mods about a scam.

Like a lot of the scams they seem to pick far away places, orkney or the highlands of Scotland.
Having lived in scotland for quite a long time can I make one suggestion if a good item is offered somewhere way up north....

the highlands and islands are not that populated... and generally if you stick in a name, say Mary Roberts, and where she's from say, Isle of Mull - the internet will bring something up about her from the community webpages, business pages, planning permission of the local government and so on. (I hope there isn't a real Mary Roberts) - while you can't do this in the city as easily you can up north get a feel for if people are likely to exist or not.

[alwoodcock]

The BEST way to avoid rip offs is to avoid Ebay and, especially Paypal!

[Stance]

Hello

Thanks for all the tips.

Though I´m a newbie, I´m planning on using Basschat to sell the basses I come across, or already have and don´t use them.

I´m going to use this topic in other to be as clear and as trustworthy as possible as to the items I may sell.

I´ve been using Ebay, but I´m tired of giving them and Paypal my money!

Regards from sunny Portugal

[Stance]

Hello

I need your help.

I´m trying to complete a sale but the buyer wants me to send a print of ID card (what are your opinions about this? I´ve already given him my nick on Ebay so he could see Iwas an honest person and had a positive feedback of 100%.)

Any more thoughts on how can someone prove his honesty?

Thank you

Best regards

Alex