Listening To The Hi-hat

[Pete Academy]

For years I've always followed the kick drum in order to lock in with the drummer. A couple of years ago our drummer suggested I listen to the hi-hat instead. It was tricky at first, but I now find it really helps with the groove.

In her BGM interview this month, Gail Anne Dorsey says:

"Locking in with the kick drum is the key to hitting the right beats, but something I recently discovered - I'd say in the last five years - is that I'm paying more attention to the what the hi-hat is doing. Most players will be able to land the bass note with the kick drum or snare, because it's a more obvious pattern, but the sway and actual feel of a rhythm comes from the hi-hat."

Any thoughts on this?

[Wil]

Hi hat is generally my main focus - I was listening to a lot of The Police when I first started playing with a drummer, so Stuart Copeland is probably to blame for my fixation on the HH. I'm not sure how much more advantagous it is over the kick for locking into, but I suppose that with more hits on the HH per bar it may offer a better rhythmic reference point.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Wil

[cheddatom]

Hi Hats or just right hand in general, yeh, that's what i'm listening to.

[ZMech]

I've never noticed myself listening to a particular part of the drumkit, is that unusual/detrimental? only focusing on one part seems like an unnatural approach.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Zach' post='823773' date='Apr 30 2010, 10:19 AM']I've never noticed myself listening to a particular part of the drumkit, is that unusual/detrimental? only focusing on one part seems like an unnatural approach.[/quote]

+1

As a relative novice, I feel like I'm listening to everything rather than focusing on any specific element.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Zach' post='823773' date='Apr 30 2010, 10:19 AM']I've never noticed myself listening to a particular part of the drumkit, is that unusual/detrimental? only focusing on one part seems like an unnatural approach.[/quote]

I don't concentrate hard, I just use the hi-hat as more of a guide. It becomes more of a subconscious thing after a while.

[Low End Bee]

I've always locked in on the hubcaps. I don't consciouslessy ever listen out for the kick drum.

[hubrad]

I've usually found myself locking into the snare for the overall groove, but the hat work is kind of fine tuning on that.. perhaps similar to the difference between a song played on straight M/m chords and one with 9ths and such?
Besides anything else, the kick is often the hardest to hear when standing alongside.

[Musicman69]

Hats and bass are good to listen to and play off, provided the drummer knows what he's doing. A lot of blues and rock have the snare slightly ahead or behind the beat so bear that in mind.
Would be inclined to listen to the whole kit myself... better again, listen to the whole band!

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Musicman69' post='823795' date='Apr 30 2010, 10:31 AM']Hats and bass are good to listen to and play off, provided the drummer knows what he's doing. A lot of blues and rock have the snare slightly ahead or behind the beat so bear that in mind.
Would be inclined to listen to the whole kit myself... better again, listen to the whole band! [/quote]

Yep...that's why bass players are generally MDs.

[gary mac]

I like to keep one foot in contact with the kick drum legs/stand, that way I can really feel it.

[OldGit]

Yup

HH and Bass drum plus his "in breath before a fill" thing someone mentioned recently.
But then me and my main band drummer have been playing together for ove 20 years so it's all fairly subconcious.

I notice he also locks on on me

[cheddatom]

It's not that I concentrate on the right hand, it's just that I think that's where I get my "feel" from.

[wateroftyne]

I think I listen to the groove 'as one' - I have to be on the hat side of the kit, though - it drives me nuts if I'm not.

[Sibob]

I always try and listen to the whole kit for sure, including hi-hats obviously.
It really gives you an amazing choice of rhythms to choose from and lock in with.
Obviously most of the time, kick, snare and hi-hats are the main choice, but theres definitly some times when playing with a tom or a china for example can sound great!

Si

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='823832' date='Apr 30 2010, 10:57 AM']It's not that I concentrate on the right hand, it's just that I think that's where I get my "feel" from.[/quote]

Time from the kick, feel from the hats?

[discreet]

My 2p:

1) If the drummer is less than brilliant, everyone else will sound like crap.

2) If you're not locked in with the kick, there will be no groove.

3) Physically being on the same side of the kit as the hi-hat is a very good idea.

Peace out!

[bassace]

I know that most of you guys play rock so I defer to your opinions. From a jazz point of view, to me it's always the hi-hat or the ride cymbal. The kick drum hasn't been the driver in jazz for the last 50 years or so. As a DB player, the less of kick drum the better IMO.

[discreet]

[quote name='bassace' post='823855' date='Apr 30 2010, 11:21 AM']From a jazz point of view, to me it's always the hi-hat or the ride cymbal.[/quote]

Well, jazz [i]is[/i] the teacher...

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='823841' date='Apr 30 2010, 11:04 AM']Time from the kick, feel from the hats?[/quote]

I don't really know, it's difficult for me to differentiate between time and feeling. The kick has more of a bearing on what i'm going to play, than it does on my "feel", so in a way, yes E.G I might write a bassline that is synched to the kick and snare pattern, but when i'm playing that line, even though it's "locked in" i'm still "feeling" the hats.

Talking about performing music can get pretty vague and confusing!

[Dood]

[quote name='bassace' post='823855' date='Apr 30 2010, 11:21 AM']I know that most of you guys play rock so I defer to your opinions. From a jazz point of view, to me it's always the hi-hat or the ride cymbal. The kick drum hasn't been the driver in jazz for the last 50 years or so. As a DB player, the less of kick drum the better IMO.[/quote]


I think,although into prog and metal primarily, The hats are still probably what I listen to most - however, I have found that I HAVE to rely on the 'clock' inside my head to feel a lot of the wierd and wonderful time changes that I am subconciously counting off as we motor though a song.

This is an old video, but it gives you an idea of what our drummer is playing in one of our 'easier' songs. The hats do dissapear and it's easy to get lost in a turn around!

[Sibob]

[quote]2) If you're not locked in with the kick, there will be no groove.[/quote]

Depends on context

If you listen to a lot of Nu-Soul, most notably D'angelo's Voodoo album (Questlove & Pino), there's rarely a bass note sitting on a bass drum or snare.....and they groove like a no-ones business!. QL sits way behind on the beat and Pino is almost in another postcode lol
Sounds amazing though!

Si

[xilddx]

For me, HH is the most expressive piece of the kit. I'm also a massive Copeland fan and I think a lot my rhythmic expression comes from long years of listening to the HH. I don't really follow anything in particular though, it's a combination of pulse, melody, vocal and certain parts of the kit. Sometimes all of that. Depends on the song and what part of the song.

[xilddx]

[quote name='discreet' post='823852' date='Apr 30 2010, 11:15 AM']My 2p:

1) If the drummer is less than brilliant, everyone else will sound like crap.

2) If you're not locked in with the kick, there will be no groove.

3) Physically being on the same side of the kit as the hi-hat is a very good idea.

Peace out![/quote]
1 - Agreed, but it's the same with everything, especially bass.

2 - Totally disagree

3 - Only in tiny venues. Monitoring is the key. I like a full band mix with good vocal volume.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='dood' post='823873' date='Apr 30 2010, 11:35 AM']'clock' inside my head[/quote]

Actually, maybe it's that i'm using, and it's guided by the hats. When i play drums, my right hand is the clock in my head.