Vintage MIJ (formerly J@pCr@p) Spotting

[Paul S]

Makes my back twinge just looking at it! I love these, still miss my old one but they are just too heavy. And that is a cracking price.

[Bassassin]

Cort through-neck (Korean), sensible start price of £50:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bass-guitar-/261476776943

Bonus if the Precision pup turns out to be a DiMarzio Model P.

J.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1399638087' post='2446134']
Makes my back twinge just looking at it! I love these, still miss my old one but they are just too heavy. And that is a cracking price.
[/quote]

My mate had the guitar version, tiny little body on it but it weighed an absolute ton. Don't wanna think what the bass version weighs!

[Paul S]

Nearly 11lbs, sadly. I had the matching 'Falcon', too. A brace of black beauties.
[attachment=162434:raven1.jpg][attachment=162435:wash1.jpg]

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1399800869' post='2447684']
Nearly 11lbs, sadly. I had the matching 'Falcon', too. A brace of black beauties.
[attachment=162434:raven1.jpg][attachment=162435:wash1.jpg]
[/quote]

My mate's was suburst and came in a fitted hard case for £50, he didn't like it at all but I thought it was pretty decent.

[Paul S]

£50?! Yikes. What happened to it?

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1399889315' post='2448574']
£50?! Yikes. What happened to it?
[/quote]

The listing was ended because the item is no longer available. Possibly sold elsewhere, or someone made the seller an off-ebay offer.

[Paul S]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1399890925' post='2448605']
The listing was ended because the item is no longer available. Possibly sold elsewhere, or someone made the seller an off-ebay offer.
[/quote]

Sorry, not clear was it - I meant Lemmywinks' mate's Raven.

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1399891125' post='2448609']
Sorry, not clear was it - I meant Lemmywinks' mate's Raven.
[/quote]

Whoops! My context interpretation fail. Sorry.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1399889315' post='2448574']
£50?! Yikes. What happened to it?
[/quote]

Dunno, probably still sat in it's case at his parents' place, we're talking about 15 years ago now! My mate left the country but his dad is an active musician so it's probably getting some sort of use.

[Paul S]

I'd buy it off him for £60

[itsmedunc]

[quote name='allighatt0r' timestamp='1398869871' post='2438478']
An Avon Rose Morris with what looks to be a dimarzio model one added right up against the bridge...

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Avon-Rose-Morris-Vintage-Bass-MIJ-/281323397948"]http://www.ebay.co.u...J-/281323397948[/url]
[/quote]

I have one of those somewhere. I think a mate borrowed it many years ago! Thanks for the reminder!

[BigRedX]

More on Ishibashi:

[url=http://store.ishibashi.co.jp/ec/pro/disp/1/20-321486600]Riverhead headless bass[/url]

[url=http://store.ishibashi.co.jp/ec/pro/disp/1/09-326736602]Interesting take on the Thunderbird design from Navigator[/url]

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1400420487' post='2453633']
More on Ishibashi:

[url="http://store.ishibashi.co.jp/ec/pro/disp/1/20-321486600"]Riverhead headless bass[/url]

[url="http://store.ishibashi.co.jp/ec/pro/disp/1/09-326736602"]Interesting take on the Thunderbird design from Navigator[/url]
[/quote]

The lower horn pointing the "wrong" way on the Riverhead bass took me a few tens of seconds to get used to. But, now I think it's one of the best looking headless basses I've seen.

[Guest]

I had a Riverhead 5 string a few years back, it was a quality piece.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1400442117' post='2453937']
The lower horn pointing the "wrong" way on the Riverhead bass took me a few tens of seconds to get used to. But, now I think it's one of the best looking headless basses I've seen.
[/quote]
That's quite amazing-looking. The steampunk bridge/tuner is remarkable!

J.

[alyctes]

I'm guessing this is a Kay:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Old-Bass-Guitar-With-Case-/181416173495?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item2a3d3f1fb7

[tauzero]

[quote name='alyctes' timestamp='1400627721' post='2455694']
I'm guessing this is a Kay:
[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Old-Bass-Guitar-With-Case-/181416173495?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item2a3d3f1fb7"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2a3d3f1fb7[/url]
[/quote]

Must be a fast player, it's got no brakes.

[chaypup]

Did I post this before? Anyway, ridiculously sexy and cheap Hondo - shame it's in the states http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hondo-II-P-J-Electric-Bass-Guitar-Candy-Apple-Red-Metallic-Collectible-Nice-cond/271483227701?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222003%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D22472%26meid%3D7111704367400340199%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D9725%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D111359996469&rt=nc

[simon1964]

I'm sure I will get flamed for this, but I am going to post anyway as I feel the point is important.

Do we really have to persist with the use of the phrase "Jap" in the title of this thread. In most of the world the term "Jap" is consider to be extremely offensive and racist - [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap[/url] . TalkBass have banned people for using the the term.

Frankly the title of this thread is pretty much the equivalent of calling a thread about products produced in other parts of Asia "Paki-pap" or "Chinky-Cheapos".

And before somebody raises the point - no, it's not the equivalent of using "Brit". That is essentially a friendly term that isn't used as an insult. Even so, how would you feel about Talk Bass having a thread called "Brit-Crap"?

Edited May 24, 2014 by simon1964

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1400971858' post='2458801']
I'm sure I will get flamed for this, but I am going to post anyway as I feel the point is important.

Do we really have to persist with the use of the phrase "Jap" in the title of this thread. In most of the world the term "Jap" is consider to be extremely offensive and racist - [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap[/url] . Frankly the title of this thread is pretty much the equivalent of calling a thread about products produced in other parts of Asia "Paki-pap" or "Chinky-Cheapos".

And before somebody raises the point - no, it's not the equivalent of using "Brit". That is essentially a friendly term that isn't used as an insult. Even so, how would you feel about Talk Bass having a thread called "Brit-Crap"?
[/quote]

No flames from my direction!

A similar point arose a while back on Gretsch-Talk.com (to which I belong) - a UK member referred to a 'Jap' guitar (nearly all the pro-line Gretsches are made in Terada) merely as an abbreviation, but the reference was removed because in the USA (where the majority of G-T users reside) it is considered racially offensive.

Would it really be any better to say 'Japanese Crap'? That still links a nationality or ethnicity with a derogatory term. I doubt that anyone contributing to the thread does so out of malice towards Japanese people or the nation of Japan.

On your 'Brit' point, a Talk Bass thread called 'Brit Crap' would not bother me in the least. Just to confuse things further, I once got talking to a copper who worked in counter-terrorism, and he told me his colleagues used the term 'BritPaks', simply because that is 2 syllables, as against the 6 of 'British Pakistanis' (referring of course to British citizens with family origins in Pakistan).

I don't know what to conclude from all this, but that thread has now been running for nearly 7 years...

[Bassassin]

For me, it derives from old biker slang. When I was a kid getting into bikes, JapCrap went hand in hand with BritShit, (I ride a BritShit bike these days) and YankW@nk. If Korea had a motorcycle industry it would've been KoreaDiarrhoea. In the UK these abbreviations were not, are not, and I doubt will ever be intended as insults. This said, personally I'd never use the abbreviation to refer to a Japanese person.

I am very aware how unacceptable the use of the term is on US - based forums. Cynic that I am, I've always been vaguely suspicious that this felt a bit like an attempt to utilise political correctness to redress potential collective guilt from the USA having waged nuclear war against Japan - or for whatever other reasons the US might feel bad about its historical relationship with Japan.

Just my view on this - I love Japanese instruments, and have what is probably an incredibly romantcially idealised notion of Japanese culture. I suppose what actually makes any difference is whether this colloquial use of language would be perceived as offensive by any Japanese person using BC. Don't know if there are any Japanese BC members, but a few people on here have lived & worked there so might have a bit of insight into the matter.

Jon.

[simon1964]

Jon - a very balanced post. But given that you acknowledge the phrase is considered offensive in the USA (as it it is in most parts of the world) why not change the title to Japanese Classics or similar? The irony is that this thread actually recognises how good some Japanese copies are - so to use a term that is racially offensive to the people who produced those basses seems somewhat bizarre.

Edited May 24, 2014 by simon1964

[Bassassin]

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1400974246' post='2458818']
Jon - a very balanced post. But given that you acknowledge the phrase is considered offensive in the USA (as it it is in most parts of the world) why not change the title to Japanese Classics or similar? The irony is that this thread actually recognises how good some Japanese copies are - so to use a term that is racially offensive to the people who produced those basses seems somewhat bizarre.
[/quote]
To answer the first point - the term "JapCrap " was always intended as ironic humour, the point being that for the most part, MIJ instruments are good to excellent quality, and not "crap" in any sense. For me it also satirises the way older BC members (such as myself) regarded them back when we were young & easily-led brand slaves!

To reply to the second point, I'm actually interested in whether it is in fact offensive to the people who produced the basses, or if it just offends the politically-correct, who so often seem determined to take offence on the behalf of others.

Anyway, it is late, I'm tired and am probably not making as much sense as I would like to. I'll return to this when I've had some kip.

J.

[Bassassin]

Had a few thoughts about this - not the rights & wrongs, if there are any, but more how & why the term's used here the way it is. This is probably incoherent thinking aloud will likely pose more questions than it answers...

It occurs to me that it's probably an offensive term in North America (and probably other English speaking countries like Australia & NZ) because significant numbers of people of Japanese origin live in those countries. In the UK there's been little or no immigration from Japan, so there's less perception of the term as an expression of bigotry - at least not that I've ever been aware of.

I also think there's a big difference in referring to actual people by this sort of abbreviation, in the term we're discussing here it's a literal abbreviation of "Japanese Crap" (apropos of nothing - sounds much more insulting like that with the ironic alliterative rhyme removed!) and refers to a place of origin, rather than the people who live there. Therefore it's a mock-generalisation about the instruments themselves, rather than any reference to the people who make them. I said I'd never use the term to refer to individuals, and that's because I can't really envisage a context where it [i]wouldn't [/i]be either an insult or at least a faintly derogatory generalisation.

Context is everything, and if the context here is ironic, irreverent British humour, plainly that doesn't translate well across some cultural divides - however the membership of BC is primarily UK, and the fact that the thread's been running & pretty active for 7 years does suggest the title's not a problem for the people who use it - so presumably it's taken the way it's intended. I hope.

So - after all this, how do I feel about it? I would prefer the thread to keep the title it has, but after all this consideration have to admit a little part of me is [i]faintly[/i] uneasy about it.

There's also a tiny reactionary element of me (call it my Inner Farage - no, on second thoughts, let's not) that thinks BC is a British forum & we really shouldn't feel we have to sanitise how we express ourselves in case we upset the sensibilities of a tiny minority of visitors. Of course we embrace people from other parts of the world, but When In Rome & all that...

So to sum up - I dunno.

J.