"This bass isn't designed to have a low action"

[Mokl]

Apologies if this is in the wrong section. I pondered as to whether it should go in "technical/repair" or even "off-topic", but in the end I decided it should go here...

I shall begin by telling you that I work in a small, independent music shop, and have done for nearly 10 years. The pay isn't very good, but I feel lucky to work with some great people and have the opportunity to indulge my passion and make a living from it. I have been a loyal disciple of the bass guitar since my floppy-haired mate sold me his Westone Thunder 18 years ago, and barely a day goes by when I don't pick up the old boom stick for a tinkle. I have, as many of you, worked my way through a huge number of wonderful instruments over these last years - Wals, Jaydees, F Bass, Fodera, Lakland, Zon, Goodfellow, Vintage and modern Fenders, Sei, Rickenbacker, Bacchus, Modulus and more .... Every bass that I've picked up that has inspired me I have endeavoured to own, and have managed it (before marriage + kid mind you ). I have been very lucky to have owned some wonderful basses. In my youth I would often forego (rather foolishly) a decent square meal in lieu of the bass or amp I lusted after.

I started getting into set ups when I was 16 as I was always disappointed by the service I got from guitar-techs in shops. Nobody ever seemed to listen to what I wanted or understand the way that I played, so I did it for myself and found that, after much practise, I had a certain flare for it. Roll on 10 years and that self-learned skill helped me land the somewhat humble job I occupy now. I have set up hundreds, if not thousands of guitars, and a notably smaller number (but not insignificant) of basses. I'll be honest, I'm no Martin Petersen (sp?), but I believe that I know a good instrument from a bad one, and that I am experienced enough to help the customer get what they want from an instrument.

So, this guy brings in one of those Mexican 70`s Classic Jazz Basses. I always enjoy getting to work on a bass as most of my work is guitars, plus this was the first one of these I had gotten my mitts on. He wanted a set up on it, fair enough. I asked him what he wanted, low-ish action was the response, "it's a new Fender".... well, I've seen lots of those. Usually a fiddle with the truss rod and drop of the saddles will get you somewhere reasonable with the modern Fender stuff, but this was something else. I took it out of the gig bag to find the most skewed adjustements I'd ever witnessed - D string bottoming out on the end of the neck, massive relief in the neck, absurd fret buzz etc etc. Okay, he'd had a crack himself and lost the plot somewhere along the line - no problem for me to rectify though - I love to play a well set up Fender and thought this would be straightforward. A light fret dress and some proper adjustments should have this playing lovely and smooth.

Roll on 24 hours later... It becomes apparent to me that this bass is not right (bear in mind that it's brand new). It's not even close to being right. Attempts to tighten the truss rod meet with extreme resistance - it's already maxxed out. I wondered if it might be a bit stiff so slackened it right off, lubed the threads and tried again whilst applying some backwards force to the neck. Small improvement but still not satisfactory. Taking a straight edge to the neck I notice extremely uneven fret work and dreaded "ski slope" bend in the neck from around the 14th fret. Sighting it I spot a very ropey fret job with noticeable increase in fret height above the 12th. I had a tinker to see what sort of action it would accept as it was, and predicatably this was very poor - choking above the 12th even with high action - which was what I expected. It's at this point I decide that the customer should probably refer back to point of purchase rather than pay me an increasingly large sum of money for what is, frankly, going to need a lot of work to become a playable bass. I call him and tactfully point out the problems that I have experienced, and suggest that he really shouldn't have to pay for this instrument to be brought to a playable level and that I'm sure that if he takes it back to where he purchased it they would either replace the guitar for him or at least cover the costs of the work themselves (in my opinion shimmed truss rod, good fret dress, neck shim and set-up). In my shop we don't often have the time to set up every instrument out of the box, but we do check them and offer a personal set-up for every customer free of charge. I did not charge this customer a single penny for my time or advice.

Now we get to today. The customer has taken his bass away and travelled to the shop which he bought it from (I won't name it but it's about 40 min down the motorway from me and a well-known music shop). The customer walks in, confronts me and asks "how thick-skinned are you?". "Not very", was my answer, which was as honest as the advice I had given to him about his bass ( I am quite sensitive, if you hadn't noticed). He proceeded to tell me how "they say you don't know what you're talking about", and that "these 70`s models aren't designed to take a low action". Really? That was news to me. In my experience anything can be made to play well and with a good action if set up properly, and, of course, of sufficient quality. It sounded like the bloke in the shop bad-mouthed me, raised the bridge saddles and sent this hapless punter packing. "It took him 15 minutes"..... The worst part is that this customer now believes that I don't know what I'm talking about and felt it necessary to come in to the shop to tell me to my face.

You know, I thought I was doing the bloke a favour. I always try to do the decent thing and treat my customers as I always wished I'd been treated myself when I was in their shoes all those years back. It isn't my business, and I have nothing to gain from giving honest advice. I don't care where he bought it, in fact I have made a decent sum of money from people who have bought guitars online, or elsewhere only to find them unplayable when they were experienced enough to realise. Well, it seems that not everyone shares my sense of fair-play and honesty, and not everyone gives a damn about what their customers are buying and playing, even if they are too dim to realise they're playing a lemon.

I'll get back to my exquisitely set-up basses now, and I'll try not to think about that guy struggling to press down the E staring at the 7th fret - all the while thinking that he was a mug for taking his bass down to his small, local guitar shop. If you happen to be reading this, you will know who you are, I would still like the chance to put your bass right, and if you don't trust me I would welcome it if you were to have a play of one of my own instruments and see how it compares with your own.

You're going to have to pay me though.

Sorry, rant over!

Edited December 20, 2009 by Mokl

[karlfer]

The road to Hell and good intentions eh?
With your attitude I wish you lived close to me Mokl, cos you'd be getting my basses to sort!

Well done for trying.
The other cliche is leading horse to water, can't make it drink.

The burk deserves a crap bass!

My pops always used to say "don't enter into a battle of wits with an un-armed opponent".

Have a good Christmas mate,
Cheers,
Karl.

[Mokl]

Thank you mate. I guess I shouldn't have taken it so personally. Your pops sounds very wise!

[geoffbyrne]

Just goes to show, though, the degree of ignorance around. I mean if something's not right, I'll research & if I can fix it myself, I will, or if I can't I'll take it to someone I know has experience. The last person's word I'd take is a salesman's (excepting decent salesmen who are members of this forum - obviously!!).

Suitable props to The Guitar Shop, Ibstock where I recently had an archtop's fret replaced and the fretboard stoned. came back with an almost unnaturally low action.

G.

[Higgie]

Look on the bright side - He's gonna be the one having trouble playing it, not you

[Mokl]

Geoff, you make a good point. I always try to convince my customers that they need to take the time to learn the basic skills to achieve their ideal guitar set up. A good set-up is a great help, but you need to learn how to make the guitar respond and play as you want.

[Mokl]

[quote name='Higgie' post='690138' date='Dec 20 2009, 09:07 PM']Look on the bright side - He's gonna be the one having trouble playing it, not you [/quote]

I know, it's just that I don't like having my integrity or experience questioned...... lol

[budget bassist]

What a moron, of course any bass should be able to have a low action, i don't always want mine like that, but some jazz basses have had the nicest set-ups i've played. As the others said, he's the one that's got to play it, not you.

[Higgie]

[quote name='Mokl' post='690144' date='Dec 20 2009, 09:13 PM']I know, it's just that I don't like having my integrity or experience questioned...... lol[/quote]

Yeah, but at least you have the integrity and experience in the first place, which it seems neither he, or the git in the other shop have at all

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='Mokl' post='690144' date='Dec 20 2009, 09:13 PM']I know, it's just that I don't like having my integrity or experience questioned...... lol[/quote]

None of us do, mate - still happens though .

From what I read at the top of the page, you've got a spot-on attitude to Customer Service - the punter may not leave with what they thought they wanted, but what they actually needed & that's such a rare commodity these days.

Chalk this one up, put it behind you as best you can, & carry on as before.

Pete.

[geoffbyrne]

[quote name='Bloodaxe' post='690157' date='Dec 20 2009, 09:20 PM']the punter may not leave with what they thought they wanted, but what they actually needed & that's such a rare commodity these days.

Pete.[/quote]

What a lovely thought!!!!

G.

[Cat Burrito]

Personally I try and support my small local guitar shop as much as possible and I'm very much guided by the experience there. Sounds like he was fobbed off and just repeated what he was told. I wouldn't take it personally.

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='karlfer' post='690127' date='Dec 20 2009, 08:45 PM']My pops always used to say "don't enter into a battle of wits with an un-armed opponent".[/quote]

Love it

[Mokl]

The truth is that he probably bought this bass for only a little more than we could buy it for. In these times it is difficult to persuade people that it is worth the extra few quid for a bit of old fashioned service, but we are just about surviving.

[Musky]

So this guy eats up your time at no cost to himself, swallows a load of bullsh1t about it not being designed for a low action, and then goes out of his way to let you have a piece of his mind?

Just satisfy yourself with the knowledge that the guy's a c*ock of the highest order.

[Mykesbass]

The other shop may be right - 70's models probably were unplayable and had such a bad reputation - funny how so many people have no forgotten that. Anyway, the guy doesn't deserve you! Just remember there will be an awful lot of customers who do - and appreciate it.

I remember getting an ESP guitar in when I had my shop, it had a floyd rose trem. Unfortunately there was no upward angle on the neck so you couldn't set it up at all. ESP argued until they were blue in the face that it was OK - until I refused to pay for it.

[Gamble]

+1 to you not living close enough to do my set-ups! I can do most things that I need to myself, but I'm a bit wary of trying to dress the frets on any of my basses and cocking it up and I'm pretty sure that and maybe a bit of neck shimming are what's wrong with my jazz. I have had it looked at by a well respeted guy from round these parts but he said there wasn't anything wrong with the frets he could see and that shimming the neck can change the tone.
Anyways, sorry for the thread hijak - and don't let those muppets get you down! I totally understand how you feel about being bad-mouthed, but it sounds like a mug being led by an ar$3hol3 to me!

[Mokl]

[quote name='Mykesbass' post='690193' date='Dec 20 2009, 09:46 PM']The other shop may be right - 70's models probably were unplayable and had such a bad reputation - funny how so many people have no forgotten that. Anyway, the guy doesn't deserve you! Just remember there will be an awful lot of customers who do - and appreciate it.

I remember getting an ESP guitar in when I had my shop, it had a floyd rose trem. Unfortunately there was no upward angle on the neck so you couldn't set it up at all. ESP argued until they were blue in the face that it was OK - until I refused to pay for it.[/quote]

This is a modern 70`s re-issue which are generally very good basses. The irony is that I have an original `77 Jazz that is an absolutely fabulous playing and sounding bass. Some of the 70`s stuff was very poor, I have seen quite a few examples! However, these modern reissues are usually good.

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='Mykesbass' post='690193' date='Dec 20 2009, 09:46 PM']The other shop may be right - 70's models probably were unplayable and had such a bad reputation - funny how so many people have no forgotten that.[/quote]

I have a 1978 Fender Precision with the lowest action of all my bases and it plays beautifully. I've played a couple of other 70s Fenders which were also really good. Your post may be meant light heartedly but I feel the balance should be redressed.

[xilddx]

Love the OP, brilliant I know where you're coming from, I deeply sympathise and I still can't understand the big fuss about Fender with their awful QC.

[thisnameistaken]

Weird that someone would turn on free advice like that. Some people are just like that I suppose.

Actually one of my customers (who is worth a few million so by accepted wisdom he's a lot smarter than I am) routinely ignores my expert advice and asks me to do things I've already told him are a bad idea, only for us to do it my way a little while later, when the impracticality of [i]his way[/i] becomes all too apparent. I recently met an interior designer he'd hired to fix up his house, who apparently was asked for an honest appraisal of their current home and recommendations for improving it, did his job, and got physically removed from the property for being "rude"!

[iconic]

Great thread, and it's clear to everyone you know your stuff, aand you like what you do, it's what pays for the roof over your head afterall!!!

.....I'm fairly sure anyone who works with the [b]public at large [/b][i][/i]could transpose their own occupation here. I sell s/h cars and never sell crap, I couldn't be asked with the phone calls, I'm far too soft and even a little problem keeps me up at night worrying and thinking.

.....but......I sometimes wonder how some of the people that turn up to view my cars manage to dress themselves in the morning..........even now after 10 years of my own business, and 20 years in automotive R&D before that, I'm still amazed sometimes at how brazen,know alls, ignorant, rude, know the cost of everything but the value of nothing, or simply IQ challanged, some people are, now it doesn't get me down, I just laugh it off, and dig my bass out

And I'm sure you have had [b]the messor guy [/b][i][/i]at your shop, suck 2 hours out your life, kick the fretboards around of 4 basses, bid you a ridiculous offer on the 1st one you recommended as there is "one down the road cheaper", walk away only to come back a week later with a problem guitar they bought down the road, then it's quite amusing

Edited December 21, 2009 by iconic

[Pete Academy]

Firstly, I think you should name and shame the other shop...they deserve it.

A typical example of one store trying to destroy another's reputation.

You certainly can't polish a turd, but with some skilful work (ie yours), you can buff it up quite a bit.

[BassBunny]

As they say "No good turn goes unpunished".
The guy is an idiot and you obviously know your stuff.
I think the other shop deserves to be named.
The funny thing is a couple of friends of mine had a Music Shop in Manchester in the 70's & 80's and I was talking to them about trying to get hold of an old Harmony Guit@r. They both said "Why"? In those days the quality was bad and you either got a good one or a Dog. These day's you can buy far better quality for less money.
To say a modern day instrument has deliberately been built to emulate an old one is utter crap....

[witterth]

you come out of this whole thing best, for being honest,forthright and above all professional.
plus the no charge for looking/trying at the job for some time..well thats just really decent. hope your reward isn't just in "heaven" ....btw my stingray could do with a look at where's your shop?