Bilbo Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='GreeneKing' post='625067' date='Oct 13 2009, 03:02 PM']I agree, I can't see the point. I mean I can spend my money buying an off the peg bass built from non carefully selected woods, produced on a CNC machine, using materials and in a manner to predominantly save money. A bass designed for Mr Average with in house electronics, again to save cost, a one piece neck for the joy of truss rod use, something the same as the next guy. Painted to cover up the flaws and joins in the wood. So what's the point in wasting the same money getting something crafted to your own personal taste, a stiffer laminated neck and fretboard/neck profile tailored to your preference, pickups and electronics to suit your taste, something unique that you personally had a part in creating, something different that suits your sense of self. Something out of the ordinary, not of the masses. Come on Mr Bilbo, you can do better than that surely [/quote] That's a flawed argument, GK. If a manufacturer is cutting costs by economies of scale, fine, that applies to all areas of any business. If an independent is not able to do that, you are being charged for every bit of the process (e.g. design, neck profiling etc) so, by definition, they will be making a disproportionately expensive or inferior product, surely. The cost/quality argument is a fragile link to rely on. Of course, a manufacturer will have its budget lines (re: paint covering bad quality wood etc) but, with minimal research, most of us can tell the difference between a Squier and a top fo the range Fender. For me, the quality of an instrument is determined only by what noises it makes. The rest is furniture. If I can't HEAR the quality, it is of no particular importance. And for most of these bespoke custom jobs, I hear nothing that makes me think 'its because its a custom job' or anything that I couldn't hear from a stock Fender etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 My actual belief is that many people who go for custom instruments do so, at least subconsiously, for vanity reasons, for some sense that, by having a custom instrument they are, in some way, superior. Or is it because they believe that the gold plated widget with their name on will make them play better? I am not sure but I don't hear many 'pre' and 'post-custom' changes in sound. Steve Swallow always sounds like Steve Swallow. Jeff Berlin always sounds like Jeff Berlin, whatever custom instrument they play. Its all a bit odd if you ask me (whcih you didn't so, please, forgive me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='625113' date='Oct 13 2009, 03:41 PM']My actual belief is that many people who go for custom instruments do so, at least subconsiously, for vanity reasons, for some sense that, by having a custom instrument they are, in some way, superior. Or is it because they believe that the gold plated widget with their name on will make them play better? I am not sure but I don't hear many 'pre' and 'post-custom' changes in sound. Steve Swallow always sounds like Steve Swallow. Jeff Berlin always sounds like Jeff Berlin, whatever custom instrument they play. Its all a bit odd if you ask me (whcih you didn't so, please, forgive me).[/quote] So why don't you play a Squier Custom Vibe?? Apparently they're quite good! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='Sibob' post='625133' date='Oct 13 2009, 03:59 PM']So why don't you play a Squier Custom Vibe?? Apparently they're quite good! Si[/quote] Says who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJE Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Just my bored office worker thoughts on it. I have been very very happy with off the peg Fenders/warwicks/MusicMan guitars for nearly ten years. Recently I have wanted a custom built bass because I cannot find a single manufacturer that will give me all of the aesthetics I want without heavily moddifying that bass and potentially killing any future sale price (sometimes in life you even have to sell the things you love). I do not think it will make me play better, and I am not really bothered about wood combinations, fancy tops or special finishes. I just want a bass that has the look I want. It is vain which is why I have a hard time justifying it at the moment but, lets be honest most of us are vain. I doubt many would buy a ugly car just because it drives well, or buy ugly shirts just because the fit is nice. Anyway enough now, time to go home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) ...where else can I get flashy sound to light Leds on my fretboard?? Edited October 13, 2009 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='625106' date='Oct 13 2009, 03:33 PM']That's a flawed argument, GK. If a manufacturer is cutting costs by economies of scale, fine, that applies to all areas of any business. If an independent is not able to do that, you are being charged for every bit of the process (e.g. design, neck profiling etc) so, by definition, they will be making a disproportionately expensive or inferior product, surely. The cost/quality argument is a fragile link to rely on. Of course, a manufacturer will have its budget lines (re: paint covering bad quality wood etc) but, with minimal research, most of us can tell the difference between a Squier and a top fo the range Fender. For me, the quality of an instrument is determined only by what noises it makes. The rest is furniture. If I can't HEAR the quality, it is of no particular importance. And for most of these bespoke custom jobs, I hear nothing that makes me think 'its because its a custom job' or anything that I couldn't hear from a stock Fender etc.[/quote] I think a dose of reality is needed. Come to the lake District and compare my considerably cheaper ACG Harlot to my Fender P 62 re-issue. Not just as furniture either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 If you hadn't acquired a Wal twenty odd years ago I think your view would be very different. Good bass players can get their sound out of many different basses - what you don't know is how hard they've having to work to get that tone, how much they're fighting against the instruments natural tone. I imagine Steve Swallow's custom bass lands close to the centre of his preferred tonal range when he plucks it his default way, whilst his previous instruments were probably skewed one way or the other. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='625139' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:03 PM']Says who? [/quote] Well who says that a hand-built Wal is worth £2000? or £3200 now lol. For some it's aesthetics, for some it's a status thing (brand etc), for some it's to solve a technical problem (Macdaddy's Shuker), for some it's literally being involved from start to finish with something that is very personal and an item they spend a lot of time with. Why did you order a Wal? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='Sibob' post='625167' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:24 PM']Why did you order a Wal? [/quote] Back then int' shops 'twas either a Wal, a traction engine or a mullet. Obvious choice really. Alex P.S. Couldn't you have asked someone with a Squier to start this thread? It really isn't provocative enough coming from an owner of a revered boutique bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='Sibob' post='625167' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:24 PM']Why did you order a Wal? [/quote] I played 3, liked them all because they were consistent and they had a good rep. Paid £740 (+£20 for a second-hand hard case). Now worth 4x that but not for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='625179' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:31 PM']I played 3, liked them all because they were consistent and they had a good rep. Paid £740 (+£20 for a second-hand hard case). Now worth 4x that but not for sale.[/quote] To put that in perspective: In 2008, £740.00 from 1986 was worth: £1,624.75 using the retail price index £1,568.15 using the GDP deflator £2,211.71 using the average earnings £2,535.53 using the per capita GDP £2,743.84 using the share of GDP Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 For me, I used to play all jobs on one bass for about 16 years. But those jobs were all the same with the same type of music. Now I do a lot more more professional playing, from cello to double bass and electric bass, I need certain instruments for certain sounds. Yes, I could do it all on a single instrument, but the people hiring me expect a certain amount of care and attention about the sound I produce. And I even have a couple of wooden basses now, as some producers/MD's do ask for a more "traditional" non-graphite sound. Tradition? Pah! Add to that the fact that my basses are my hobby as well as my living. (Yes, I am a very boring man!) And yes, I do know what they're all made from. And it may not matter to Joe Public, but it does matter to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I never regarded Wals as custom basses - as I've said before, they were all the same, just with a different veneer wood on the front and back. Not much bespoke there.....but good if you like the formua. I guess i'd better go into hiding for a few months...change my name...maybe take up the banjo.... twang twang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='625189' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:38 PM']Add to that the fact that my basses are my hobby as well as my living. (Yes, I am a very boring man!) And yes, I do know what they're all made from. And it may not matter to Joe Public, but it does matter to me.[/quote] But all of your basses are stock, right? So there is no contradiction here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='BassBod' post='625190' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:38 PM']I never regarded Wals as custom basses -[/quote] I agree - nothing custom about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzbassist Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='BassBod' post='625190' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:38 PM']I guess i'd better go into hiding for a few months...change my name...maybe take up the banjo....[/quote] Banjobod? No no no, has no ring to it at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='625194' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:40 PM']But all of your basses are stock, right? So there is no contradiction here?[/quote] My ACG isn't, even though I didn't order it originally. But I do take your point, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 What's all the hype about 'custom' anyway? It was the way of things in the past. Mass production, with all the units being pretty much identical is a more modern approach. Yes you get consistency, sometimes that isn't a good thing if it consistent mediocrity. The idea of negotiating with a craftsman (or woman) for a bespoke item that utilises the best practice in terms of construction and the added attention to detail that comes from being hand built from carefully selected materials. It's not new, clever or a process in need of rubbishing as something somehow pretentious. Would you decry having a house built this way? Wal's were hand built, the electrics were chosen because someone decided it was a better approach to the more conventional offerings, choice of woods and a visit to the luthier to discuss the instrument were an option. Wood wise Wal's are as spectacular as many so called 'Custom' basses and just as much open to be labelled 'furniture'. There's not that much of a different between this and the works of Shuker, ACG, Sei, and a whole host of bass builders. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='625198' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:41 PM']....I agree - nothing custom about them (Wal bassess)....[/quote] Your Wal bass is as "custom" as any Sadowsky, Shuker or Alembic. Just because you didn't spec your Wal doesn't make it a mass produced "off the shelf" item! What's the difference between a Ford Focus and an Aston Martin, an MFI and a Smallbone kitchen or a Bic and a Mont Blanc? The first is perfectly good and serviceable but the second is by far a better product. Same thing with basses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Twang...Twang I could tell you a few things about tone rings if you're interested - did you know they now deep-freeze them to improve the sound? I'd say the Alembic Epic and an 80's Wal custom were about the same - a small run production bass from a high quality (if a bit quirky) maker, with limited custom options..mainly the choice of face woods. Never seen an EMG or Bart on either..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Oh feck me, not this creaky old chestnut AGAIN. Blimey, is it October already? [quote name='alexclaber' post='625026' date='Oct 13 2009, 02:34 PM']getting one of those 'expensive custom jobs' is in many cases vastly [b]less[/b] expensive than getting an Alembic or a Wal![/quote] Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='625198' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:41 PM']I agree - nothing custom about them. {Wals}[/quote] If you order one and specify a particular facing wood or finish, then it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Should have gone with the leopard-skin thong Bilbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It'd go with my pillbox hat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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