SS73 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Listening to Sultans of Swing and thinking the Bass isn't that outstanding, or is it, it really does work, perfectly compliments Mark Knopfler's guitar, just great, must be flats for that lovely deep and short note, think its a WAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moos3h Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Agreed, my favourite type of bassplaying - not showy-offy, not Mr Flashypants, but solid and there to support the song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) [quote name='SS73' post='618425' date='Oct 6 2009, 12:09 PM']....Listening to Sultans of Swing and thinking the Bass isn't that outstanding, or is it, it really does work, perfectly compliments Mark Knopfler's guitar, just great, must be flats for that lovely deep and short note, think its a WAL....[/quote] This is perfect bass playing, probably on a Precision. The Wal came later. Edited October 6, 2009 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyboy2106 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Saw this thread and thought I'd add that Marquee Moon by Television also has some tasteful, almost faultless bass playing. Not fancy, but incredibly steady and spacious. I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 It's that kind of bass playing that's so solid you can turn it up and up without ever taking over the mix. Big notes in just the right places. He's really working the note lengths and using pickup ghost notes to make it pulse. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 John Illsley is often mocked for his part in Dire Straits which I think is unfair, after all you don't want to stamp all over Mark Knopfler's playing, that'd be like having a dog and barking yourself. Outside of the soloists and obvious exceptions in a band context (RHCP, Level 42, etc) isn't our instrument meant to be supportive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Those that mock simplistic bass playing are as ill informed as those that mock Ringo's drumming (and aren't doing so with tongue firmly in cheek). Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS73 Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 I think that some, me for sure would take offence at being told to just back up and provide steady with no frills, but yes, he has risen above and shown how clever he really is. If that's the Precision I'm starting to gas for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickeyboro Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 We play this song at the start of every function gig - I really better go back and listen to the original. We kick off the second set with Money For Nothing - with luck, alcohol has been consumed and the place starts to jump. Gawd bless da Straits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 It's a great line, and Illsley is a GREAT player. The Live at the BBC version is really agressive and growly. As it happens, I saw MK on his last tour, and he did Sultans... it was awful.. the band (who were crap-hot on everything else) missed the point of the groove entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 [quote name='SS73' post='619030' date='Oct 6 2009, 09:14 PM']....I think that some, me for sure would take offence at being told to just back up and provide steady with no frills....[/quote] Bootsy Collins and Bernard Edwards can play the same 2 bar riff for 10 mins and John Illsley plays with no frills. A great player will sound great just playing what the song needs. That's the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 [quote name='markyboy2106' post='618467' date='Oct 6 2009, 12:47 PM']Saw this thread and thought I'd add that Marquee Moon by Television also has some tasteful, almost faultless bass playing. Not fancy, but incredibly steady and spacious. I love it.[/quote] very much plus the one. i was listening to the album today. the bass playing on marquee moon is, to me, not far off perfect. but then...marquee moon eh ? pretty much a work of genius. and yes...sultans of swing - lovely bit of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieD_FenderP2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Woah? There were other members in Dire Straits 0_0 Take a step back and say that again?!?!?! Nah, John Illsley was a seriously great bass player and his rhythmic bass lines certainly did compliment Mark's (ego) guitar lines but it's just sad to me that Mark Knopfler was such an egotistical sod. Demanding that it be "Mark Knopfler Featuring The Dire Straits" on some of the Greatest Hits albums etc etc DS played Woburn Abbey Sculpture Gallery for someone's do they had on there, I didn't go, I was to young, but my Dad (who was the head chef at Woburn at the time) said he really looked forward to seeing them play, and was really disappointed afterwards because of Mark's lack of stage presence, apparently he didn't talk to the crowd once or even introduce any songs, they just flowed through them all which I think is wrong Such a shame... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='StevieD_FenderP2009' post='619204' date='Oct 7 2009, 12:39 AM']Woah? There were other members in Dire Straits 0_0 Take a step back and say that again?!?!?! Nah, John Illsley was a seriously great bass player and his rhythmic bass lines certainly did compliment Mark's (ego) guitar lines but it's just sad to me that Mark Knopfler was such an egotistical sod. Demanding that it be "Mark Knopfler Featuring The Dire Straits" on some of the Greatest Hits albums etc etc DS played Woburn Abbey Sculpture Gallery for someone's do they had on there, I didn't go, I was to young, but my Dad (who was the head chef at Woburn at the time) said he really looked forward to seeing them play, and was really disappointed afterwards because of Mark's lack of stage presence, apparently he didn't talk to the crowd once or even introduce any songs, they just flowed through them all which I think is wrong Such a shame...[/quote] Sorry, man... I have to take issue with this. 'Private Investigations: The Best of Dire Straits & Mark Knopfler' is called that because it's the best of Dire Straits & Mark Knopfler. It's no more complicated that that. If I could be bothered to find a photo of the Failboat, I'd post it. Yep, he doesn't wear glittery suits, tell jokes and skip down walkways into the crowd, but he's all about the music. He doesn't pretend to be anything else. Above all, I can assure you there's NOTHING egotistical about Mark Knopfler. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassaussie Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) [quote name='ezbass' post='618591' date='Oct 6 2009, 01:28 PM']John Illsley is often mocked for his part in Dire Straits which I think is unfair, after all you don't want to stamp all over Mark Knopfler's playing, that'd be like having a dog and barking yourself. Outside of the soloists and obvious exceptions in a band context (RHCP, Level 42, etc) isn't our instrument meant to be supportive?[/quote] I totally agree. It's always frustrating when a decent musician who has a good understanding of what his role is in a band is labelled as being not very good simple because he's good at his job. I mean, if he's really that crap, why did a guy like Knopfler (who's accepted as being a great) keep him around for so long? Other than Knopfler, Illsley was the only other constant member of Dire Straits. Edited October 7, 2009 by bassaussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS73 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='619092' date='Oct 6 2009, 10:22 PM']It's a great line, and Illsley is a GREAT player. The Live at the BBC version is really agressive and growly. As it happens, I saw MK on his last tour, and he did Sultans... it was awful.. the band (who were crap-hot on everything else) missed the point of the groove entirely.[/quote] Old grey whistle test, just watched it , wow thats a great bass sound. A few years ago, I was down at Classic Le Mans helping out a friend with his team, in the large trailer park one eve we had the most awesome privilege to hear Mark on acoustic guitar n vocals and Nick Mason on cutlery drums entertaining after a bbque, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' post='619259' date='Oct 7 2009, 07:11 AM']Above all, I can assure you there's NOTHING egotistical about Mark Knopfler.[/quote] +1 - Heard a radio interview with him last week - self-effacing to the point of near inaudibility. Mind you, his brother Dave might not concur. Edited October 7, 2009 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='Moos3h' post='618433' date='Oct 6 2009, 12:18 PM']Agreed, my favourite type of bassplaying - not showy-offy, not Mr Flashypants, but solid and there to support the song.[/quote] It's what bassplaying is all about for me. You're the glue and he is very good glue. As for Mr Knopfler, always comes across as a decent bloke. Probably press misinterpretation as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Mickeyboro' post='619090' date='Oct 6 2009, 10:19 PM']We play this song at the start of every function gig - I really better go back and listen to the original. We kick off the second set with Money For Nothing - with luck, alcohol has been consumed and the place starts to jump. Gawd bless da Straits! [/quote] We do those 2 too and Sultans is a more interesting line for me (not sure I play JI's actual line, but the meat and tatties of it are there with a bit me thrown in). As I'm singing BVs on MFN I'm very glad the bass line is simplistic or I'd be in real trouble EDIT: I've also been playing Lady Writer with another band and the bass line to this is great fun, bouncing from standard 4/4 to a rhumba feel and back again. Edited October 7, 2009 by ezbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatboter Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Over here in Belgium we play "Sultans of Swing" and "So far away" with our band and it is always a joy. We even play them during soundchecks and sometimes people come over to be assured that we play it later in the set. I never get tired of playing "Sultans".. I play it with a guitarplayer who is capable to copy the excellent guitarwork and he sings really good too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 [b]THREAD RESURRECTION ALERT![/b] On a whim I had a play along to Sultans last night - that is a much clankier P sound than I had imagined/remembered! Had a look on OGWT and he is playing a natural/rosewood/tort P. In the car today I was stuck in traffic long enough to listen to the whole of the 'Live at the BBC' recording - not sure why that tone works but it does, I would have gone for something with much less treble. If the opportunity arises maybe I will dare to turn the tone up on the bass. And yes, Marquee Moon is a masterpiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Yeah - the bass in Live at the BBC is totally out of character. Great stuff, but the warmer tones you usually associate with John Illsley suit it better. I think time is about right for a Straits reappraisal. They were bloody great, and much better than the 80s image they've been tainted with would suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsmith Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I spent 5 years playing Dire Straits songs in a[size=1] tribute[/size] band. I had a lot of fun playing the songs. Not the most complex of basslines, but always good for the song and the songs really are all about feel more than technical ability. (Live at least) a Precision was the early bass of choice, then a Musicman. The Wal appeared around the time of Love Over Gold - JI claimed sound engineers told him it was easier to mix. Later stuff was done on a Jazz. From what I can remember, I don't think he changed his strings very often, but I think he might have for the BBC sessions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Played a few Straits tunes at jam sessions, a young lad used to turn up and that's all he wanted to play for a while. Sultans was already done by others so I knew that but ended up doing Money for nothing, romeo and juliet and one that I particularly like basswise was Down To The Waterline, lovely bassline on that as in all the others it just fits in with the song so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leroydiamond Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Loved the first 2 albums, but that was it for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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