NoLogic69 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Hi There, Hope there's a solution to my problem! I gig with a Ric 4003 and absolutely love the deep piano like ballsy sound. My second bass is a fantastic 70's stlye custom built Jazz. It's amazing to play and looks a million $, but for me it's lacking in the tone dept. It's equipped with a pair of great Wizard 64's and top quality CTS pots but just doesn't have that deep, ballsy bass tone that I love. I don't really want to part with it because it's so great to play and is one of the best looking basses I've seen, so would rather change out the pups or modify it to get the sound I'm after, if it's pos. Heard great things about Dark Star pickups, but only heard clips on the net, never heard one in the flesh so to speak. I know it won't give me the Ric sound, but it's a high output single coil with plenty of depth I'm lead to believe. Will it get me closer to the sound I'm after? I know there would be some routing to do, but that's ok. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Cheers, Mario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Whenever want deep and ballsy with my Jazz I turn the tone knob all the way down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerboy Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I think there are a few things you need to take into account - Rick pickups are single coil, have pole pieces directly under the strings (rather than smaller ones either side) and are mounted hanging from the pickguard/surround, rather than screwed to the body. You'll get closer the more of these things you do. They're also floating above a maple through-neck, which provides some of the clarity. I did an experiment recently to see if I could get a Thunderbird to sound more like a Rick, with single coil pickups mounted from pickguard rings. Answer - yes. It sounds a lot more like a Rick (but not all the way). [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=53048"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=53048[/url] If you want a cheap first step, I'd start with Quarter Pounders, and see if you like them. Dark Stars are a very expensive experiment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='dangerboy' post='545778' date='Jul 20 2009, 09:59 PM']If you want a cheap first step, I'd start with Quarter Pounders, and see if you like them. Dark Stars are a very expensive experiment![/quote] I also have QP's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 For a start, I think the Wizard 84s would probably get you closer to your desired tone than the 64s would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I think there are a few things you need to take into account - Rick pickups are single coil, have pole pieces directly under the strings (rather than smaller ones either side>>>>QUOTE.. Erm....so does a jazz me love.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I think he means that the difference is that THIS ...pickup has two small magnets at either side of each string, whereas one with single polepieces would look something like THIS ...albeit the 5 string version Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='acidbass' post='545930' date='Jul 21 2009, 01:07 AM']I think he means that the difference is that THIS ...pickup has two small magnets at either side of each string, whereas one with single polepieces would look something like THIS ...albeit the 5 string version Danny[/quote] erm...i stand corrected..that will be the beer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 In a word, I'd say probably not. Completely different pickups Different woods Different neck joint...etc. Why do you like your jazz, if your preference is for the sound of your Rick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbyrne Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Drop in a John East pre and sound like anyone you like............ G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 you have it sorted.. you have both basses, so gig both. I wouldn't change the fundamentals of what makes a bass good.. and I believe Chris Squiers managed to get his sound..which most associated with a Rickenbacker, on a stock Jazz. I have heard other guys get close... What is wrong with playing the Ric...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fudge Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 A drummer came up to me half way through a gig and complemented me on my Rik sound. Granted he hadn't seen me as he been round a corner. "Cheers" I said, "I love the sound of a Rik" as I pointed to my Jazz. He obviously knew something about basses and tone (good drummers often do) Ironically I put some wizzard 84's in my jazz last week and I now think it sounds like a bit riky. btw wonderfull pups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Hiya Mario Maybe the quest to make your Jazz sound like a Ric isn't the way to go? Given that they are very different basses each with their own strengths would it make sense to just improve the tone of the Jazz to something you like more and have that variety? The J-Retro is great or for a very different yet tonally comprehensive approach you could try the ACG02 that slots straight in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 despite being both single coil regardless of pole design i think the rick windings will be different fatter and shallower the positioning and power of the pups on the rick are very different from the jazz the jazz having the disadvantage of being equal pup design so giving more bias to the neck as the major output pup on the rick the bridge is the beastie with the neck just adding some sub tones it would be interesting to see if a jazz body with rick pups fitted would sound like a rick..if you could buy them the through neck aspect shouldnt be a major issue modern ricks now seem to have equally shaped and sized pups but i dont know if they are matched to give similar outputs by loading the bridge pup to balance the neck jazz pups should be matched this way as well but i have never found that...the bridge always seems lower output so to sum up campers...a jazz sounds like a jazz and a rick etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Historically Geddy Lee fooled most Rush fans into thinking his 70s Jazz was a 4001, particularly on [i]Moving Pictures[/i] but allegedly on a good few other Rush albums too. Alternatively there's this approach: Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='Bassassin' post='546271' date='Jul 21 2009, 12:15 PM']Historically Geddy Lee fooled most Rush fans into thinking his 70s Jazz was a 4001, particularly on [i]Moving Pictures[/i] but allegedly on a good few other Rush albums too. Alternatively there's this approach: Jon.[/quote] You know, on 2nd viewing I'm really liking that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fudge Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='Bassassin' post='546271' date='Jul 21 2009, 12:15 PM']Historically Geddy Lee fooled most Rush fans into thinking his 70s Jazz was a 4001, particularly on [i]Moving Pictures[/i] but allegedly on a good few other Rush albums too. Alternatively there's this approach:[/quote] Very very true ... also someone on this forum pointed out recently (a fact that I had forgotten over the years) that Geds Jazz had some dodgy wiring that contributed to his sound. It's all in his fingers though isn't it really??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='GreeneKing' post='546276' date='Jul 21 2009, 12:17 PM']You know, on 2nd viewing I'm really liking that.[/quote] its a good fit and uses a decent bridge where did the pups come from...not a rick surely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I'm sure there was a clip on here fairly recently, showing Chris Squire playing a jazz and as someone mentioned a few posts back, making it sound like a ric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='Mr Fudge' post='546286' date='Jul 21 2009, 12:25 PM']Very very true ... also someone on this forum pointed out recently (a fact that I had forgotten over the years) that Geds Jazz had some dodgy wiring that contributed to his sound. It's all in his fingers though isn't it really??? [/quote] I suppose - the Steinberger & Wals sounded very different, but maybe that was what he was after at the time. He's playing a Precision on the first Rush album & still had a lot of "that" tone, even back then. Any idea what the dodgy wiring was? Maybe that's the answer the OP's after. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLogic69 Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Hi Guys, And thanks for all your comments, I take on board what you all say. I understand the differences between the 2 basses, woods, pups, etc. And I know I'll never get a Jazz to sound exactly like a Ric, without installing Ric electrics etc, etc. What I am wanting to do, is get it somewhere in the same ball park. A deep powerful ballsy tone. That's what's drawing me towards the Dark Stars. They are a powerful single coil, with a low, wide winding (pole pieces under the strings), rather than the Jazz pups which are a tall narrow winding(pole pieces either side of the strings). So it would be great to get some feedback on Dark Stars and whether or not they'll get the tone of my Jazz to where I want it. As I said I've never heard Dark Stars in the flesh, only on recordings, and was hoping some one out there might be able to give me an idea of what they sound like in real life. I understand they're not going to sound like a 4003/4001, but how do they compare to them sonically. Do they have that big ballsy sound like a Ric or do they sound more like a P or a Jazz or whatever...... I did toy with the idea of swapping the 64's for 84's and restringing with flats, that might get me somewhat closer to the tone I'm after. But I came across the Dark Stars and they really got me intrigued. I absolutely love playing my Ric and really love the Jazz to play, but would never gig with it as to my ears it just sounds nowhere near as good as the Ric. If I can get the Jazz to sound good, then I've got a choice of 2 great basses to gig with. If it's not pos, then I might have to bite the bullet, sell the Jazz and buy another Ric. I'd rather not go down the pre-amp path, right or wrongly just not a fan of active basses. Cheers Guys, Mario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Possible solution? [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=51702&hl=warmoth"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...&hl=warmoth[/url] Warmoth quality is great too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdavid Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='NoLogic69' post='545763' date='Jul 20 2009, 09:46 PM']Hi There, Hope there's a solution to my problem! I gig with a Ric 4003 and absolutely love the deep piano like ballsy sound. My second bass is a fantastic 70's stlye custom built Jazz. It's amazing to play and looks a million $, but for me it's lacking in the tone dept. It's equipped with a pair of great Wizard 64's and top quality CTS pots but just doesn't have that deep, ballsy bass tone that I love. I don't really want to part with it because it's so great to play and is one of the best looking basses I've seen, so would rather change out the pups or modify it to get the sound I'm after, if it's pos. Heard great things about Dark Star pickups, but only heard clips on the net, never heard one in the flesh so to speak. I know it won't give me the Ric sound, but it's a high output single coil with plenty of depth I'm lead to believe. Will it get me closer to the sound I'm after? I know there would be some routing to do, but that's ok. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Cheers, Mario.[/quote] I think SD Quarter pounders with a little upper mid boost are as close as ive heard to a Ric sound on a Jazz bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLogic69 Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='markdavid' post='546907' date='Jul 21 2009, 07:26 PM']I think SD Quarter pounders with a little upper mid boost are as close as ive heard to a Ric sound on a Jazz bass[/quote] Yeah, some one else mentioned SD quarter pounders. Something to think about. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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