15 or not 15? What do you think?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

41 minutes ago, Beedster said:

‘Most’? So there are some we’re allowed to use then? 

As with all rules there are exceptions. If one uses a dust cover/dome that's of stiffer and lighter material than the cone, especially if it's bonded to the voice coil, it can act as a smaller midrange radiator, giving broader mid dispersion than the cone. That used to be fairly common with JBL, Altec, EV and other driver manufacturers. It's still used, but the downside is a pronounced midrange break up mode. With instrument speakers that can be desirable, but the more 'hi fi' oriented the driver the less likely it is to be employed.

[Beedster]

8 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

As with all rules there are exceptions. If one uses a dust cover/dome that's of stiffer and lighter material than the cone, especially if it's bonded to the voice coil, it can act as a smaller midrange radiator, giving broader mid dispersion than the cone. That used to be fairly common with JBL, Altec, EV and other driver manufacturers. It's still used, but the downside is a pronounced midrange break up mode. With instrument speakers that can be desirable, but the more 'hi fi' oriented the driver the less likely it is to be employed.

Possibly why I love my Mesa 15 and why it seems to work well live? 

[Open E]

Anyone fancy my Barefaced 15 inch Compact (with cover) in exchange for a 12 inch Super Compact?

[Dan Dare]

11 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

They might be irrelevant to you.

 

They could be irrelevant to all if you are playing very quietly through your stage rig. That would require excellent monitors for everyone else and a PA doing the job out front.

 

For the average pub band with a vocal only PA the technicalities are VERY relevant to bandmates and audience.

 

Do try not to quote people out of context. I actually wrote "If you like the sound of 15s (and don't mind carrying them), the technical arguments are irrelevant, even if they are true."

 

In other words, if you're happy with something and it does the job for you, use it and never mind what the "experts" think or say. And of course, a tweeter will help get the higher frequencies out there if that's what you crave.

 

I hardly think a couple of 15s and a beefy amp will have you "playing very quietly through your stage rig". You're more likely to be asked to turn it down.

 

As for dispersion, to which you refer in another post, dispersion from a good quality 15 is not that much worse than that from a 12, especially at low frequencies, which are less directional anyway. Were that not the case, a single 15 or even 18 loaded sub' would not work as well as it does to fill a room. With a vocal only PA, you can take a feed from the bass rig and cut the lows from it on the mixer, so only the mids and highs pass through the PA cabs. That will give you some articulation out in the room (with the low end coming from the stage rig) without turning what comes out of the PA to mud. I often do exactly that and it works fine.

[Sparky Mark]

My first rig was a Sound City 120 on top of a single 18 folded horn and a Shergold Marathon from Rockbottom in Croydon. They saw me coming. No definition but my mates said they could hear it rumbling half a mile away. Bloody awful. I replaced the cab with a SMF412 bought from Angelwitch's bass player who worked in a music shop in Leytonstone. Not much better.

[Dan Dare]

3 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

As with all rules there are exceptions. If one uses a dust cover/dome that's of stiffer and lighter material than the cone, especially if it's bonded to the voice coil, it can act as a smaller midrange radiator, giving broader mid dispersion than the cone.

 

This. My Black Widows had alu' domes and they didn't lack crispness or dispersion.

[3below]

37 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

This. My Black Widows had alu' domes and they didn't lack crispness or dispersion.

At one point I dabbled at Jazz guitar using my 15" BW bass combo.  It was remarkably good sounding for guitar (I hasten to add my playing was not).

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

 

 With a vocal only PA, you can take a feed from the bass rig and cut the lows from it on the mixer, so only the mids and highs pass through the PA cabs. That will give you some articulation out in the room (with the low end coming from the stage rig) without turning what comes out of the PA to mud. I often do exactly that and it works fine.

PA should always carry the instruments, and again the reason is dispersion. Low frequencies have no problem filling a room as they're not highly directional, or directional at all below roughly 250 Hz. But that's not the case with mids and highs, so if you want 'not a bad seat in the house' the mids and highs from everything should be in the PA, drums included. Not necessarily loud, but just enough to give a uniform sound throughout.