Narrow neck

[Daveee]

Hi folks, sorry if this has already been done to death...

 

I'm a beginner with small hands. I'm resisting the temptation to swap my Yamaha TRBX 174 (which I like) for a short scale. I'm focusing on trying to get a good technique instead.

 

What I struggle with is the width of the neck from the 12th fret upwards. Even with my palm/hand hard up against the bottom of the neck my little finger doesn't reach the E string properly. My bass is 40mm at the nut. I'm told Ibanez have slim necks but as far as I know the width at the nut is 38mm so the difference with my bass is marginal and I assume the same would apply further up the neck.

 

Are there any basses which are narrow, higher up the neck and/or does anyone have any advice.

 

Thanks

 

Dave  

Edited May 26 by Daveee
amendment

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

What on earth are you doing going up further than the 12th fret? Rookie error that 😎.

Seriously though. A short scale may not necessarily help, unless you also have short arms?

A narrower jazz neck, typically ballpark 38mm nut width, but crucially with a shallow neck depth would probably help you more.

I haven't played your model of bass, so I don't know how deep the neck is. 

Best bet, get yourself down to a store that has loads of basses and try some. See what works for you best.

[ezbass]

It’s surprising how much a couple of millimetres make. However, reaching the E string with your pinky might have as much to do with the body’s ergonomics than the neck width/hand size. Most short scales flare out too, especially those with 19mm spacing at the bridge, Hofners being an exception to this IIRC, so you still might find it an issue. I don’t have overly large hands (but not small) and there are fingerings that I struggle with up at the dusty end (Pino’s outro to Tear Your Playhouse Down, for instance), what I tend to is find a different fingering that negates some of the high frets on the E string.

[Baloney Balderdash]

The Squier Paranormal Rascal, as well as the Danelectro Longhorn Bass got 17mm string spacing at the bridge, versus the standard 19mm, and as such have narrower necks also higher up, as you approach the bridge.

 

Both amazing short scale basses too.

 

Edited May 26 by Baloney Balderdash

[Daveee]

Thanks folks, I'm going to stick with a full scale, I just wondered whether there was a "quick win" in terms of a narrower neck all the way up.  I read a lot about Ibanez SR basses and wonder what they are like. 

 

I've been doing an online course for a couple of months but am going to take some face to face lessons soon, I'll ask the person I'm seeing.   

Edited May 26 by Daveee
amendment

[Woodinblack]

Also this might have something to do with how low you are wearing the bass - the lower it is the harder to get your hand round. But as a primary ibanez player, it is probably the depth of the neck rather than the width. i mean I can't deal with wide necks but I do play 5 strings, so there is more width required there (but I dont' go above 17.5mm spacing if I can help it).  Ibanez do have narrow string spacing in most of the basses, but there is a limit to how narrow it goes.

 I would say I have never had my hand hard against the bottom of the neck. I don't have big hands either but not sure how you can move your hand smoothly if you are doing that, maybe this is a technique thing rather than a string spacing thing. In fact now I check, I don't touch the bottom of the neck when I am playing the E (or even B).

[Daveee]

Thanks for that comment, I'll see what my teacher says when I see him.

[JoeEvans]

I'm selling an Ibanez Axstar on here which has 11mm spacing at the nut and 17mm at the bridge, with a very slender neck all the way up. So they are out there... The disadvantage is that some find the plucking or picking harder with the closer string spacing.

[tauzero]

From what you say, your left hand position might not be ideal, although that may be me misinterpreting it. Have you got your thumb roughly central on the back of the neck with your fingers curved over the fretboard? Your teacher will be able to sort that out if your hand positioning could be improved. I've got quite short fingers but I can play a 7-string bass (others may disagree).

[Acebassmusic]

This has come up in threads before and I think is quite key to how to progress without struggling too much or getting injured. Have a look at THIS THREAD as it might give a bit of help. Good luck.

[Grahambythesea]

As @tauzero says if you’re playing higher up it should not be your palm behind the neck but your thumb. 

[Daveee]

Thanks again folks. My thumb is roughly central on the back of the neck but when I get beyond the 12th fret I have to pretty much take it off the neck and bend my wrist more than is healthy/comfortable in order to get my little finger on the E string. I appreciate it's hard to visualise.  As I said, I'm seeing a teacher soon so will hopefully sort it out then. 

[Acebassmusic]

7 minutes ago, Daveee said:

Thanks again folks. My thumb is roughly central on the back of the neck but when I get beyond the 12th fret I have to pretty much take it off the neck and bend my wrist more than is healthy/comfortable in order to get my little finger on the E string. I appreciate it's hard to visualise.  As I said, I'm seeing a teacher soon so will hopefully sort it out then. 

 

I've just re-read your description and thought about it a bit more. Using your little finger on frets above the 12th is difficult due to the way the bass lays and the "twist in your wrist" (no I'm not a poet 🤣) I'm not sure what others do but if I have to attain notes above the 12th fret on the E I usually move positions to lower down the neck on the A string as it's more comfortable to reach.

[Reggaebass]

I’ve just had a look and realised ..there really is frets above the 12th 😁

[asingardenof]

I believe one if the reasons Paul McCartney chose the Höfner violin bass is because the fretboard width is more or less the same along the whole length of the neck.

Edited May 27 by asingardenof

[Paolo85]

 

7 hours ago, Acebassmusic said:

 

 if I have to attain notes above the 12th fret on the E I usually move positions to lower down the neck on the A string as it's more comfortable to reach.

This. I have never encountered a song in which it was actually necessary to play above the 12th fret with my pinky. Granted, I am not a consumed professional, but I bet you can play the entire discography of most bands without having to do that. I imagine it may be a thing with some fusion shredders playing solos. But that's not necessarily a beginner's concern. Still, good to take this as an opportunity to look at technique and as an excuse to buy another bass!

Edited May 27 by Paolo85

[Paolo85]

8 hours ago, Daveee said:

I have to pretty much take it off the neck and bend my wrist more than is healthy/comfortable in order to get my little finger on the E string. I appreciate it's hard to visualise.  As I said, I'm seeing a teacher soon so will hopefully sort it out then. 

...let me add that in my opinion there is nothing wrong with taking the thumb off the neck for a quick passage if you really have to reach that high G on the E string. Assuming you end up having to play something that requires you to use the pinky there and cannot be played on the A string, I imagine it would be just one fast phrase every now and then, not a repeated groove, so low risk of repetitive strain injury

[Daveee]

All interesting stuff.

It sounds like it shouldn't be so much of an issue in the real world. I've only been playing a few months and am mostly playing scales and exercises rather than riffs and songs so the issue arises when I try to play a scale beyond the 12th fret.

Just out of interest are there any basses (apart from the hofner) which stay slim all the way up. Everyone talks up the Ibanez SR500 but if I'm right it measures 62mm at he 24th fret which is pretty much the same as my Yamaha TRBX 174. 

 

Edited May 27 by Daveee

[Woodinblack]

The Rickenbacker?

[Daveee]

16 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

The Rickenbacker?

Any particular model?

[Dan Dare]

I played a Hofner violin/Beatle bass recently. Neck was very narrow all the way up. That was about its only redeeming feature. Ric's are also pretty slim.

[Burns-bass]

I’d recommend not spending money on a new bass, but possibly getting a lesson or two.

 

This sounds (to me) like a technique issue. It’s easy to assume that a new or more expensive bass will somehow solve the issue but I reckon if we sat down for 10 minutes I’d be able to diagnose and solve the issue.

One of the most common issues that causes a lack of reach is plus if the thumb as a pivot and pulling fingers against the fretboard to sounds note. This can inhibit movement and is entirely unecesssary. A well set-up bass should enable you to fret notes with minimal effort. 

[Paolo85]

14 hours ago, Daveee said:

 

Just out of interest are there any basses (apart from the hofner) which stay slim all the way up. 

 

The Harley Benton HB60 (which I have) and, reportedly, the Guild Starfire remain narrow. I am not 100% sure they remain as narrow as the nut, but they remain fairly narrow. As others have mentioned, the neck expands to accommodate the "usual" 19mm string spacing at the bridge. So any bass with tighter string spacing would expand less, and you normally can check a bass' string spacing online.

As for the HB60 and the Guild, they are short-scale basses with a long-scale body. This means the 12th fret is closer to the nut than in a long-scale bass, which makes it even easier to reach there. On the other hand, these are definitely not the sort of bass that people who play with their pinky on the E after the 12th fret want to buy.

[Daveee]

12 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

I’d recommend not spending money on a new bass, but possibly getting a lesson or two.

 

This sounds (to me) like a technique issue. It’s easy to assume that a new or more expensive bass will somehow solve the issue but I reckon if we sat down for 10 minutes I’d be able to diagnose and solve the issue.

One of the most common issues that causes a lack of reach is plus if the thumb as a pivot and pulling fingers against the fretboard to sounds note. This can inhibit movement and is entirely unecesssary. A well set-up bass should enable you to fret notes with minimal effort. 

I think that's spot on actually.

 

I have face to face lessons planned and I'm hopeful the teacher will help me sort this out.

 

Thanks.

[Lozz196]

15 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

I’d recommend not spending money on a new bass, but possibly getting a lesson or two.

 

This sounds (to me) like a technique issue. It’s easy to assume that a new or more expensive bass will somehow solve the issue but I reckon if we sat down for 10 minutes I’d be able to diagnose and solve the issue.

One of the most common issues that causes a lack of reach is plus if the thumb as a pivot and pulling fingers against the fretboard to sounds note. This can inhibit movement and is entirely unecesssary. A well set-up bass should enable you to fret notes with minimal effort. 

Yep, I`ve just started to get arthritis in my left thumb, I`ve found that playing a Jazz width neck is easiest on it but bizarrely playing my thickest necked Precision is also ok, it`s the medium sized necks I`m having trouble with so it`s clearly how I position my thumb on those that`s the issue. As such I`ve got a bit of work and many years of unlearning to do.