Old Man Riva Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 … a brief appraisal of the wonderful Mr Karn from the excellent PDBass. 8 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Totally agre with the chap, except that Mick Karn should be rated, not "up with Jaco", but "well above Jaco". 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Thanks for posting that... Mick Karn was one of the reasons that I started playing bass when everybody around me was learning to play guitar. His unique style and sound were so inspirational. I have most of his solo albums - not easy listening for non bass players which goes some way to explaining why he wasn't commercially successful however you only need to look at the list of collaborations to see that he was admired by his contemporaries. I just hope that his music and fame have the longevity that he deserves. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Any excuse... 10 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Riva Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 23 minutes ago, Count Bassy said: Totally agre with the chap, except that Mick Karn should be rated, not "up with Jaco", but "well above Jaco". Well they both certainly had their own unique and distinctive ‘voice’ on the instrument, which I always think isn’t that common - a lot of really good players can sound like a lot of really good players, but don’t have their own distinctive voice. Of the two, musically, Mick Karn appeals to me much more. A genuinely unique musician, and also cool as f**k. It’s a winning combination! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Mmmmmm, Karn versus Pastorius..... The 'Pastorius opened the doors' argument is reasonable, but there's something about Karn's style that does seem to have been possible even had Jaco not popularised fretless. When I was 20 Karn seemed to be the epitome of new wave cool, listening to those lines today he sounds kinda......... Jazz 🤔 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I feel particularly lucky to have seen Japan twice, both times at Hammersmith Odeon in 1981 *christ...* I still listen to Modern English, the support band for the first gig. Just reminiscing to myself really, nothing to see here... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Riva Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 10 minutes ago, Beedster said: Mmmmmm, Karn versus Pastorius..... The 'Pastorius opened the doors' argument is reasonable, but there's something about Karn's style that does seem to have been possible even had Jaco not popularised fretless. When I was 20 Karn seemed to be the epitome of new wave cool, listening to those lines today he sounds kinda......... Jazz 🤔 Funnily enough that’s exactly what I thought today when I watched the video. I’ve never given it a thought before, but when I saw the breakdown of Tribal Dawn I was completely taken by how ‘jazzy’ it sounded… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) Probably going to be an unpopular opinion but I'm not a huge fan of Mick's playing despite growing up in the 80's and the fretless bass being my main instrument. There's absolutely no doubt his talent, technical ability and musicianship is incredible and he has to be considered as one of the top fretless bassist's but his playing is just a little too qwerky and disjointed for my enjoyment. I also never liked Japan for this reason as well. I'm very much in the camp of more melody and harmony and why I associate more with the likes of Pino and Giblin. Likewise, Jaco sounds more melodic to my ears despite not being a huge listener of his playing. Bizarrely enough, last year someone came up to me after a gig and said he could hear Mick Karn influences in my playing which I put down to growing up listening to 80's music thanks to my two sisters and my friend being a huge Japan fan. I guess I was just absorbing what I was hearing. Either way, I went home and started listening to all the Mick Karn stuff I had and I still struggled with it. As for Mick vs Jaco, for me you can't compare, Mick had his style and Jaco had his, equally as talented and equally brilliant. Edited January 22 by Linus27 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusee pee Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I love Mick Karn's work, crazily inventive. This thread has reminded me to dig out my old Dali's Car album. The Jansen, Barbieri and Karn work is so cool and a reminder of what great drumming there was on Japan's albums too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misdee Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) Mick Karn was always a maverick. It's not really that useful to compare him to Jaco Pastorius in so much as Jaco was an educated musician whereas MK played by instinct. Mick was always very frank about his disregard for conventional technique and saw it as a strength rather than a shortcoming. Jaco was from a completely different idiom steeped in tradition and scholarship. His jazz background is what defined his style and put him streets ahead of the competition. They're both magnificent in my estimation and I enjoy them both tremendously. Mick Karn was a mesmerising talent back in the early '80's and surely a fretless icon forevermore. Edited January 22 by Misdee 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misdee Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, Frank Blank said: I feel particularly lucky to have seen Japan twice, both times at Hammersmith Odeon in 1981 *christ...* I still listen to Modern English, the support band for the first gig. Just reminiscing to myself really, nothing to see here... Tickets available from £2.50. Those were the days... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asingardenof Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, Beedster said: Mmmmmm, Karn versus Pastorius..... The 'Pastorius opened the doors' argument is reasonable, but there's something about Karn's style that does seem to have been possible even had Jaco not popularised fretless. When I was 20 Karn seemed to be the epitome of new wave cool, listening to those lines today he sounds kinda......... Jazz 🤔 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Thinking about it I suspect Mick Karn supported the song to a greater degree than Jaco, there's a version of No Regrets out there somewhere where he plays some sublime bass that sits so nicely in the space, whereas Jaco, even at his best with for example Joni Mitchell and (arguably) Weather report, always seemed to be a bit more front and centre? Karn an ensemblist, Jaco a soloist....? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Not really my thing but there's something I love about Karn's playing on this. Nothing special but perhaps that's the point.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneknob Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 3 hours ago, Frank Blank said: Any excuse... Steven Wilson on guitar there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I've loved Mick Karn and Wal basses since the 80s when I first heard Japan. For me, way more influential and dare I say more interesting than Jaco was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40hz Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I love Mick Karn, reason being, he's the only bassist who I cannot fathom how he plays the way he does. He's like an Alien being with his phrasing and 'melodies' - try as I might, he's probably the only bass player I can't even muster up a facsimile of in terms of tone or playing. A true, true visionary and one of a kind. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieldsNPT Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I saw, I think suggested for me by Google on my phone, a list of the 25 best bass players in the universe, ever. Notable absentees were Pino Palladino and Mick Karn. That video by PDBass inspired me to pick up my only bass, a fretless Sire P7, and "dick around a bit". I sounded awful, fair play. It's enough for a good bassist to try to do Mick Karn, a novice like me, well. I had fun though. 😀 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneknob Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Some of you will dig this - after an intro noodle it morphs and kicks into something you'll recognise (it's Sons Of Pioneers, one of my favourite Japan songs) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 13 minutes ago, FieldsNPT said: I saw, I think suggested for me by Google on my phone, a list of the 25 best bass players in the universe, ever. Notable absentees were Pino Palladino and Mick Karn. That video by PDBass inspired me to pick up my only bass, a fretless Sire P7, and "dick around a bit". I sounded awful, fair play. It's enough for a good bassist to try to do Mick Karn, a novice like me, well. I had fun though. 😀 I suspect that if you heard Mick Karn's tracks isolated and unprocessed they'd sound a little but less impressive than the fully mixed and mastered tracks you're familiar with, so keep going (the guy presenting the video in the first post is clearly quite a handy player but his tone seems a long way from Karn's 80's/90's peak) 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I love Mick Karn's playing, particularly liked the Travis Bean tone years and here he is playing with Kate Bush. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I saw Japan quite a few times in the early days (around '78-79), when they were a) in their ascendency, b) being derided by every weekly music paper except Sounds and c) very limited fanbase, so audiences were fairly small. I'm almost certain I saw them at Dingwalls, definitely at The Venue, Music Machine, Lyceum. My last gig was at The Theatre Royal, Drury lane with David Rhodes on guitar (Christmas 1982). I’d argue that the first two albums and the Live In Japan EP were all 10/10 releases and Quiet Life, while decent, just didn’t match AS & OA; beyond this very much a case of diminishing returns. I didn’t gel with GTP so much or TD at all; at this juncture it seemed the fanbase were too obsessed with their clothes and hair styles rather than the music. It just became fashionable to like them if that makes sense. With me, bands metaphorically tended to fall out of favour if Janice from the typing pool said she liked them. I detested the Masami Tsuchiya period. On the subject of Mick Karn, he was phenomenal live. Such a presence. I just wish I’d paid more attention to what he was doing at those early gigs rather than appreciating the band as a whole, if that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 51 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said: it seemed the fanbase were too obsessed with their clothes and hair styles rather than the music. It just became fashionable to like them if that makes sense. Yes, for similar reasons I wasn't into Japan at all, but the Girls at school loved them for how they looked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneknob Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Ditto - my big sister loved Duran, the Police, Japan etc and had their posters from Smash Hits, Jackie etc on her bedroom walls. So I had to find my own early teenage music preferences because no way could I like the same as her. Despite that I was strangely drawn to Sons Of Pioneers for reasons I would much later learn to be bass guitar. Ditto New Gold Dream, Rio, Zenyatta etc etc. I still have some of her records that I stole in the late 80s. Don't tell her! Then later she bought me Bestial Cluster for Christmas one year, which is still a frequent listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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