NickA Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 Following a previous similarly titled thread: My PB300 powered cab has a niggly intermittent fault and may need to go visit it's maker for a while. I'm thinking of sending off the amp bit on its tod and powering the speakers with one of those tiny class D amps until the amp comes home; then maybe flog said tiny amp on these pages. Which of the various options is the cleanest most uncoloured one? The warwick gnome is pretty cheap and will do 280W int 4Ohm = ideal for the 6x neo drivers in the cab. ... I had thought they would all sound the same; but then someone wanted a warm "tubey" sounding one - implying they are not the same after all (eg darkglass do one with two whole blendable distortion circuits = not for me!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyder Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 I use a Warwick Gnome head, the 650w version. With the tone controls at noon it has a very scooped and clean sound . A flat frequency can be obtained with a few tweaks to the tone knobs. For a neutral and clean sound with tone controls at noon I would go for the 800w Phil Jones , the blue one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 Quilter 800 is uncoloured at noon by design. Can also put on a dirt show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzbassist Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Demeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAdder60 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Genzler Magellan 800 would be a possibility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted December 30, 2023 Author Share Posted December 30, 2023 Tempted by those pb800s. ... But for a similar price theres a used d800+ for sale. If I chuck £700 at an amp I fear it would lead me into buying lots of cabs! Could get pricey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 The built in amp on the PB300 is rated at 250W, so you won't need a powerhouse to drive it. Do make sure you connect the drivers correctly. They are probably wired series/parallel to give 6 ohms (or so) impedance. Individual PJB drivers are normally rated at 8 ohms. My four driver PJB cabs are all wired series/parallel to give 8 ohms total impedance. They claim 400W power handling each, but I Find they are happy with a little over half that. Removing the plate amp from the back of it it will leave a sizeable hole, which you will need to fashion a cover for. A piece of ply with a Speakon connector let into it should do the trick as a temporary fix. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Tecamp Puma 900. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted January 1 Author Share Posted January 1 Yes I'd fit a ply or ally plate and a speakon socket. Maybe also a mains socket and a couple of mains outlets so I could power the amp and the flight case combo from one mains lead ..daisy chaining the amp input from the flghtcase line out. A lot of boxes to carry tho. Maybe the pb300 powered from an amp would be enough. I had the pb300 apart last week to fault find ( found nothing, but it sprang back to life) and forgot to measure the impedance. The six drivers are in three parallel sets of two in series, so if 8ohm each, the whole thing is 16/3 = 5.33 ohm. I'll check! The pjb d400 amp is 350W into 4ohm ( current limit ) and 200W in 8 ohms ( voltage limit ), so should be 300W into the 250W pb300. Perfect, and confirms that a d-800 is overkill. The d-400 is still £550 + tho, which is more than I'd hoped to spend on a temporary solution. Which is why I wondered if a gnome (or something) would do ...might even fit inside the pb300!? Thanks for the other suggestions ...quite heavy tho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubbybloke68 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 18 hours ago, tauzero said: Tecamp Puma 900. 100% 😊 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 20 hours ago, NickA said: Yes I'd fit a ply or ally plate and a speakon socket. Maybe also a mains socket and a couple of mains outlets so I could power the amp and the flight case combo from one mains lead ..daisy chaining the amp input from the flghtcase line out. A lot of boxes to carry tho. Maybe the pb300 powered from an amp would be enough. I had the pb300 apart last week to fault find ( found nothing, but it sprang back to life) and forgot to measure the impedance. The six drivers are in three parallel sets of two in series, so if 8ohm each, the whole thing is 16/3 = 5.33 ohm. I'll check! The pjb d400 amp is 350W into 4ohm ( current limit ) and 200W in 8 ohms ( voltage limit ), so should be 300W into the 250W pb300. Perfect, and confirms that a d-800 is overkill. The d-400 is still £550 + tho, which is more than I'd hoped to spend on a temporary solution. Which is why I wondered if a gnome (or something) would do ...might even fit inside the pb300!? Thanks for the other suggestions ...quite heavy tho. Ah, you're running it with a Flightcase combo. That must be a nice rig. I got into PJB stuff via picking up a used Flightcase. I liked the sound, but wanted more of it, so got a couple of C4s and drove them with a power amp fed by the Flightcase. Eventually sold the Flightcase and got three 4Bs, which I like a bit better than the C4s, plus a couple of 2 ohm capable amps. I mix and match according to the requirements of the job. I'm not so keen on PJB heads. I find them a bit too hi-fi when used with PJB cabs. I realise super clean is the PJB design intention, but I prefer my Aguilar or Carvin with them. YMMV, horses for courses, etc. You could pick up a used power amp for not much money if it's only temporary. Wouldn't stack neatly with the Flightcase and PB300 (you'd probably have to put it on the floor behind the rig), but would do as a temporary fix whilst the PB300 amp is being repaired and used power amps are pretty cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBass Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Following @BassAdder60's suggestion... the Magellan 350 would be cheaper, smaller and still relatively uncoloured and neutral. I had one for a few weeks in 2023, I got it from eBay and sold it via the for sale section quite quickly. Its a perfectly good and neutral amp, with a couple of filters if you don't like it too neutral. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 (edited) Nice rig Dan, with lots of options. I also got into pjb by getting a used flight case for very cheap off bass chat..but it's not loud and I missed the heft of my old trace rig when playing electric, so hunted down a used pb300. Together they are a great rig and either or both are lovely with double bass..if a bit "soft" for electric bass . you're right tho, I don't need a whole bass amp, a simple power amp will do; some on eBay; £120 for 400w into 4ohm. Might be worth a punt. tho...now you mention it... I have a qsc plx3602 sitting in a cupboard at work "offering up 775 Watts per side at 8 Ohms, and weighing in at a mere 21 lbs". The 21lbs is an issue, but it's a superb amp. And as I'm in charge of the cupboard.🙂 Edited January 2 by NickA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 3 hours ago, BillyBass said: the Magellan 350 would be cheaper, smaller and still relatively uncoloured and neutral. Good call..if I could find a used one ...£500 new at bass direct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAdder60 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 8 hours ago, NickA said: Good call..if I could find a used one ...£500 new at bass direct. Genzler Magellan amps are superb and offer a lot of amp for the money Easy to use EQ and loud for their rated wattage. Very nice indeed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 17 hours ago, NickA said: now you mention it... I have a qsc plx3602 sitting in a cupboard at work "offering up 775 Watts per side at 8 Ohms, and weighing in at a mere 21 lbs". Blimey. 775W a side into 8 ohms would be well over a kilowatt bridged. You could vaporise your PB300 with that... QSC power amps are very good. I used them for my PA until I went down the active cab route. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassmanPaul Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) I have used stereo power amps for years in my PA systems and my bass amp. I've never felt the need to Bridge any of them. You really don't have to use both channels. Just use one side by itself. Edited January 3 by BassmanPaul 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBass Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 18 hours ago, NickA said: Good call..if I could find a used one ...£500 new at bass direct. The 350s come up 2nd hand every now and again; usually for about £300 give or take. You don't see many 800s coming up for sale 2nd hand. I got mine off eBay, sold it on here. I would say they are worth £500 new, if you want that sound. They are well made, the feature set is excellent and they go below 4 ohms. But £500 is a lot of money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEYADE Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 BUGERA VEYRON M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 Measured the pb300s speaker array today. DC resistance = 5.9ohm. Do you measure speaker impedance at DC? It will be higher at actual noise frequencies. Anyway, no worries for any 4ohm rated amp. As for the initial amp problem, pjb responded immediately to an email and put the pb300 amp designer on helping me diagnose the problem. Sadly we haven't found the cause yet and it may have to go to the states to get mended. THAT is a plus for buying Ashdown ... Back to needing a backup amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 I didn't spot this earlier but we've been doing some measurements on frequency responses of amps. We specifically started with the micro amps; Gnome, BAM and Elf. It's on a thread here somewhere. None of them are flat with the controls at 12.00 though you can tweak them to be more or less flat. They all have differing scoops at 440Hz but all three have the mid control at 440Hz which makes eq simpler The Gnome and Elf all have decent HPF keepint the subsonic frequencies under control which will help protect your speakers, ideal for small amps which might be used with smaller drive units. The Elf has a classic smiley face/old school eq with everything at 12.00 the BAM is similar but slightly less pronounced and the Gnome is also scooped but with a more lively top end which gives it a distinct 'hi-fi' sound. In listening tests at the last SW Bass Bash the Elf got a lot of love with everything set to 12 but all three are tweakable to give a flat sound if that is what you want. In other tests we found the Bugera Veyron M to have the flattest response we measured rolling off the frequencies that a bass doesn't make only. It is a 700W amp though so you'd have to use the volume control judiciously. The Gnome in our tests is mine, bought as a back up when my MB Tube started having problems. It is now my go to amp much to my surprise, for what you want it is ideal but the Elf or BAM would probably do the same job for you. It's a silly price too. If you genuinely want a flat response amp with lots of tone options the Bugera is a great option and on the basis of the tests and subsequent listening tests I bought one which I use in preference to my Peavey and MB. I'd be careful about people's subjective opinions about how an amp sounds. You should see the range of terms we see in descriptions they give of the same amp or speaker we collect in out shoot outs, mine included Miost amps withan fx loop are flat beyond the fx input though. Oh DC resistance 5.9 ohm is typical for an 8ohm impedence speaker as you surmised 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel406 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Nothing beats the Mesa Subway D-800+. But the Epifani UL901 sure comes close. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 2 hours ago, joel406 said: Nothing beats the Mesa Subway D-800+ Have you heard or played through every other amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 3 hours ago, joel406 said: Nothing beats the Mesa Subway D-800+. Presumably that's why you advocate using nothing. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 13/01/2024 at 17:45, tauzero said: Presumably that's why you advocate using nothing. Spot on. It's why I take nothing for a headache (nothing acts faster than Anadin, after all) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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