Fender American II Pro Bass with bottomed out saddles - easy fix?

[daws0n]

Afternoon all

 

I've bought Fender American II Pro online and am looking to collect in person. The seller appears to be genuine, we've spoken on the phone however he's on the otherside of the country which pretty much rules out demoing beforehand. It's a 2021 example in very good cosmetic condition, however he's forewarned that the guitar needs a setup as the action is currently quite high (the strings are most likely original). Photos show 3mm action height at 12th fret for E string the saddles look to be bottomed out for E / G strings.

 

My MIM player series jazz has plenty of travel left on the grub screws for adjustment, I'd expect an MIA to be the same - is this an easy fix or potentially something that requires attention beyond basic setup?

 

Thanks

[Beedster]

Could be as simple as a 1/4 - 1/2 turn on the truss rod, could be something more problematic. I’d not drive a long way to find out it’s the latter, perhaps ask the seller some more focussed questions re neck relief etc before going ahead?

[Beedster]

Strings do look quite chunky which could be a factor if he’s changed them from original and not accounted for the extra tension in his set-up?  

[bigthumb]

I'd guess that there's a lot of relief. Pro 2 necks are one of the nicest Precision necks I've played (never tried a Jazz though) and getting a low action is pretty easy. I'd say that the truss rod needs tightening quite a lot. Ask if the truss rod works as it should and it's not maxed out. 

[daws0n]

Cheers both, I'll ask re: neck relief and truss rod - fingers crossed all is working as it should.

[Reggaebass]

The pro 2 should set up really low, I’m guessing as above that there’s a lot of relief on that one, I’d see if you can get some pictures of the neck from the top looking down or from the bottom looking up to see how straight the neck is for more of an idea, they are great basses, good luck 

[Lozz196]

I’ve not had the II Pro version but the I Pro and the US Standards before them allow for a very good low action and the setup/hardware is exactly the same. As such I reckon the posts above about a lot of relief in the neck are spot on, chances are the owner doesn’t know how to set up the bass (I was just like that many moons ago with similar action) providing the truss rod works ok once the neck is adjusted I’d expect those saddles to be raised a bit, I’ve never had mine all the way down like that on numerous basses with the same setup/hardware. 

[Old Horse Murphy]

I've had a couple of Pro ii's and still have one. On all of the ones I've had the truss rod has been stiff and maybe the original owner hasn't tightened it enough because the felt it was getting close to max'ing out. You do have to be a bit brave with them. 
 

The saddles on mine have always had to be adjusted low in order to get a low action. I don't think the saddle pin grooves on the bridge help here as they're recessed to stop lateral movement, so it feels like the saddles are grounding out. 
 

I switched to lighter gauge strings with lower tension which I prefer anyway and these again assisted with lowering the action. My current action is around 2mm on the E string at the 12th fret. 
 

 

[Ed_S]

I was never much of a fan of that type of bridge on my 4 string USA Standard P, but it set up alright with the 40-100s that I was using back then. When I got a matching 5, though, I found it unworkable as the B saddle ended up grounded out with the action still too high even though the neck relief was set absolutely fine. Intonation was also a significant problem. I considered tapered strings and other possible fixes, but in the end I just moved the bass on.

 

 

When I got a good deal on a USA Pro I Jazz V a couple of years ago which had the same bridge and the same problem, I'd already decided on a drop-in replacement Hipshot 'A style' bridge for it using some of the money I was saving. I find it a substantially nicer piece of engineering to work with, and it completely deals with the issue for me. If the neck turns out to be alright, it might be an option to consider if the deal is good enough to make it worth a try.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

A shim under the end of the neck in the neck pocket should enable it to be set up nicely.

[asingardenof]

7 minutes ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

A shim under the end of the neck in the neck pocket should enable it to be set up nicely.

I was going to say the same, on the assumption that the truss rod and relief are fine, then a shim would be the way to go.

[Burns-bass]

56 minutes ago, asingardenof said:

I was going to say the same, on the assumption that the truss rod and relief are fine, then a shim would be the way to go.

I agree this would sort the issue, but you need to consider why it’s happening. These are expensive basses and are fairly new, so it’s either a lack of care or something worse,

 

Either way, I’d save the cash and time driving hundreds of miles and find one on here that’s fine.

[daws0n]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

 

It's a tricky situation - factoring in travel costs it still works out at half the price a new one. It doesn't come with a truss rod wrench so I'll need to get hold of one beforehand to test it works OK (don't fancy trying an allen key).

 

I wouldn't expect a high end guitar to have this sort of issue out of the shop so to speak - 3mm action would considered too high?

 

He's messaged to say the neck will need adjusting as it's been stood for while, there is no sign of fret buzz and it plays well.

[Baloney Balderdash]

How is the nut slots?

 

Are they approximately as low as they ought to be, or are they cut too high?

 

If the strings sit too high in the nut slots it will result in a higher overall action when strings are not fretted. 

 

Also a truss rod wrench essentially is the exact same as an appropriate sized allen key, just with a fancier shaft/handle.

 

I know of no basses that actual comes with a truss rod wrench from factory, but usually does come with appropriate sized allen keys to adjust respectively the truss rod and the saddles. 

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Ed_S]

10 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

How is the nut slots?

 

Are they approximately as low as they ought to be, or are they cut too high?

 

If the strings sit too high in the nut slots it will result in a higher overall action when strings are not fretted. 

 

Also a truss rod wrench essentially is the exact same as an appropriate sized allen key, just with a fancier shaft/handle.

 

I know of no basses that actual comes with a truss rod wrench from factory, but usually does come with appropriate sized allen keys to adjust the truss rod and the saddles. 

 

 

Fair question - the slot for the B on my Jazz V looked very much like whoever cut it only had files for a 4 string on their bench, so just used the E file as best they could. Bit of a mess with daylight under the string until I'd sorted it, and there was plenty of material left in order to sort it.

 

USA Fenders come (or at least they used to) with a T-handled, ball-ended 3/16" hex wrench as part of the 'case candy'.

[Ed_S]

48 minutes ago, daws0n said:

Thanks for the comments everyone.

 

It's a tricky situation - factoring in travel costs it still works out at half the price a new one. It doesn't come with a truss rod wrench so I'll need to get hold of one beforehand to test it works OK (don't fancy trying an allen key).

 

I wouldn't expect a high end guitar to have this sort of issue out of the shop so to speak - 3mm action would considered too high?

 

He's messaged to say the neck will need adjusting as it's been stood for while, there is no sign of fret buzz and it plays well.

 

The E on my USA Jazz 5 is at about 2.25mm, but on my Stingray 5 is closer to 3.5mm. Both feel perfectly reasonable to me so I'd say 3mm isn't necessarily too high - it's just personal preference.

[Beedster]

8 hours ago, daws0n said:

He's messaged to say the neck will need adjusting as it's been stood for while, there is no sign of fret buzz and it plays well.

 

With action you could drive a bus under, fret buzz is rather an unlikely side effect anyway, and I'm not sure why a bass being stood for a while would entail the neck being adjusted either. The guy doesn't really know what he's talking about, I'd wait and find one that is trouble free.

 

But if you decide to go anyway, under no circumstances should you take a truss rod adjuster with you to test it, you move it and it breaks you could end up in a tricky situation. Take a very good look at the bass, check out the relief, string gauges and nut slots, have a very good look at the truss rod access (has it clearly been used a lot) and make a judgement call. Fender necks are not immune to being crap - not often but it does happen - and you don't want to land yourself a unusable instrument that's out of warranty. 

 

Good luck

[Reggaebass]

The pro 2 is a very good stable instrument and I’m doubtful it’s anything to do with the nut ,or anything else except that it’s not been set up properly, as Beedster has mentioned look for any wear on the truss rod nut, I always do this and it’s a good indication of use, hopefully for you it’s a simple fix , just check it over really good , good luck 

[daws0n]

The saddles were bottomed out when he bought it from previous owner, he found it perfectly playable as-is so hasn't touched the setup. Personally that would bother me, I like to tinker with my basses to make sure they're kept reasonably in spec.

 

He's sent a photo of the truss rod nut, it looks OK to me.  Will take a look in person with capo/feeler guages and a notched straight edge to hand, fingers crossed all is as expected!

[Burns-bass]

The only thing I’d say is that I bought a bass like this once and I could never trust it. I always assumed it would break at some point. It never did, but I still sold it.

[Muppet]

The Pro I and II range are very stable instruments and I’d be very surprised if there’s anything wrong. Just needs a proper setup with your choice of strings. And despite other opinions, I see nothing wrong with a shim in the pocket if you can’t get it exactly how you want it.

[Bix]

I've seen several in shops with fairly high action and the saddles quite low. I had concerns about this on the one I purchased, but it was lovely and a shim sorted it nicely.

[ASW]

Assuming the relief is OK, the as others have said it is clearly a candidate for a simple shim. A bit of old train ticket or two may be enough.

 

Fender have used shims since they started making bolt on neck guitars so there's nothing wrong with them. My 1962 Jazzmaster has one to get a suitable neck angle. Even the modern American Professional II Stratocasters have a micro tilt neck adjustment feature which is in effect a mechanical shim. Whether an instrument made in this day and age should need them with the accuracies of CNC machines is a different question!

 

I suspect that someone has taken the neck off before and lost the shim that was put in the neck pocket at the factory (or didn't know what it was and discarded it). I doubt it left the factory with that action. Why would it when they probably have a stack of shims ready for this very issue?

Edited December 28, 2023 by ASW

[daws0n]

Good news - no up country drive required now as he's passed the guitar over to friend who lives a few towns across from me. I can view the guitar on a take or leave basis.

 

Seller has confirmed that truss rod moves freely, fingers crossed it's a simple matter of neck relief but if not hopefully adding a shim should sort it.

[daws0n]

Picked up the bass last week and took to a reputable guitar shop for inspection. They confirmed no issues with the neck / truss rod, I left it with them for re-string and pro setup.

 

After sitting for a few days, measurements are as follows:

 

Neck relief = 0.016" / 0.40mm (fret 1 capo'ed / fret 17 fingered, measured above fret 8 wire with feeler guage)

 

String action at fret 17 =

E 2.55mm

A 2.6mm

D 2.65mm

G 2.45mm

 

The E saddle is still bottom'd out which I am puzzled by however there is plenty of room for adjustment across the rest of the bridge.

 

Less than ideal against fender's specs, but it plays nicely with no buzzing or obvious issues - beautiful tone and finish on the neck!

Edited January 12 by daws0n