Guest MoJo Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) Prompted by a discussion in another thread, I thought I'd throw this out there for discussion: DI feed to the desk [list=1] [*]Pre EQ [*]Post EQ [/list] My Trace 122H has facility for both, and up to now, I've always fed a Pre EQ signal to the FOH. Then I got to thinking that this gives the Engineer total control over how I sound front of house. For arguement's sake, we all strive to achieve the sound that we think sounds best in the situation and that we as players, pleases us. Should we not then feed that sound to the engineer rather than give him the raw signal for him to tailor as he sees fit. I have a great deal of respect for our engineer but his concept of how a bass should sound and mine are two totally different things. I have also been to several gigs recently, Shinedown at the Barfly in Birmingham being a good example where the Eric Bass's tone had been reduced to a low, indistinct rumble. Edited April 20, 2009 by bassman2790 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 But it's not just about how the bass sounds, it's about how the BAND sounds. The FOH engineer usually knows best, go pre. I say this, but I use a POD X3 LIVE so the engineer gets what I decide to give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) [quote name='silddx' post='467202' date='Apr 20 2009, 08:58 AM']But it's not just about how the bass sounds, it's about how the BAND sounds. The FOH engineer usually knows best, go pre. I say this, but I use a POD X3 LIVE so the engineer gets what I decide to give.[/quote] Do they know best though? Anyone who has been to JB's in Dudley will confirm that the engineer there just loves drums, above all else. You'd think that someone would say something or he would be shown the door but he's been there years. If our engineer was running an X3 Pro in his rack set-up, I would feel more confident that he could achieve a decent FOH sound but this is not the case and all I am getting is basically a balanced bass signal fed directly into the desk. Surely using an X3 Live is adding colouration to the sound of your bass tone in a similar way as the engineer getting the post-eq feed from my Trace, no? Edited April 20, 2009 by bassman2790 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I go pre - if the engineer is a numpty with cloth ears, me eqing the bass before s/he gets the signal is not going to disguise the fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Post eQ for me It's one of the awful facts of life that bands and musicians that work with sound engineers depend for their FoH sound on people who's ears spend their working life in a soup of 100 dB ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Pre always! The desk sounds different from the onstage amp and needs different eq to get similar tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 [quote name='bassman2790' post='467207' date='Apr 20 2009, 09:07 AM']Do they know best though? Anyone who has been to JB's in Dudley will confirm that the engineer there just loves drums, above all else. You'd think that someone would say something or he would be shown the door but he's been there years. If our engineer was running an X3 Live in his rack set-up, I would feel more confident that he could achieve a decent FOH sound but this is not the case and all I am getting is basically a balanced bass signal fed directly into the desk. Surely using an X3 Live is adding colouration to the sound of your bass tone in a similar way as the engineer getting the post-eq feed from my Trace, no?[/quote] Hi again If you don't want to rely on sound guys for a decent bass sound and taking into account your other thread, it would be probably be better for you to wait and get a decent head/cab and use post EQ. In the case of my amp, if the pre-eq button is engaged, this will not affect the outbound signal, i.e. an uncoloured signal will go straight from the amp to the desk. Therefore the engineer has control and that lovely tube sound is lost. You can also use a footswitch then the EQ on the front can be used like a boost of effect (preamp eq) so when you step on the switch the EQ'd sound will be heard through the DI on the back as this is all part of the preamp stage, as long as the POST EQ is ON at the back. With post EQ on, you are sending the amp sound to the desk. On my amp, the line out level on the back lets you adjust the signal being sent to the desk even with the master volume down. This is a good feature as you can turn the master right down to hear exactly what is being sent to the desk without the onstage cab adding to the sound. Just remember to turn the master back up if you want to hear yourself on stage. Ha ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Pre. But get him to listen to the band onstage before the PA is brought in so he can hear how you like your bass rig to sound. If his PA is properly EQ'd he should need to do much tweaking - don't be afraid to advise him on what you want. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foal30 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I spend thousands of dollars to sound like the Sound Person's Bass player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 In my experience the answer depends a lot on how big the venue is and what level of FOH you will be working with. If the venue is small, the FOH mostly for vox and your bass rig is supplying most of the FOH sound of your instrument then post eq should be fine. The worst situation I've found myself in soundwise is a small stage with a huge PA and massive bass bins with a sound man who has a club mix approach to eq-ing the FOH (ie. loads of sub bass). Its next to impossible to hear yourself on stage not simply because of competition but because the sound that comes out the back of the subs can even be out of phase with what is coming out of your rig (think noise cancelling effect). I had this happen to me at the Boston Dome (with a twat of a soundman). There was a 4x15 sub bass set up on either side of the stage and I had the bass maxed to the absolute limit on my rig yet still couldn't hear myself. When I tried the rig at sound check and after the PA was turned down post gig, the monitoring I had was thunderous but with the PA on performance volumes...nothing! Otherwise I'd send pre-eq because for anything other than the smallest venues, you'll just be forcing the sound man to compensate for your onstage eq set up through the FOH mixing desk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Go Pre EQ and speak to the engineer about the sound you like, and [i]hope[/i] that he/she takes that on-board. By going Post EQ you'll be complicating matters. Maybe you like a bright sound with not too much mid, the engineer hears it and thinks, " hmm, that's a bit bright, and there's not enough mid" and adjust accordingly. You either use your own (trusted) engineer or hope for the best. EQ-wise the sound guy's going to do (pretty much) whatever he thinks is right anyway. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='467208' date='Apr 20 2009, 09:10 AM']I go pre - if the engineer is a numpty with cloth ears, me eqing the bass before s/he gets the signal is not going to disguise the fact [/quote] Very true. The correct answer, of course, is 'both'. A pre-EQ DI and a mic in front of your eq'd, effected, distorted luvverly cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 [quote name='AM1' post='467219' date='Apr 20 2009, 09:19 AM']With post EQ on, you are sending the amp sound to the desk.[/quote] The Amp sound - Not your speaker sound, a big difference. Remember the FOH Rig, will have a whole bunch of speaker combinations, Which will change the sound. A good engineer will always listen to your sound, and try and emulate that. If he does not - he needs changing. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 The majority of opinion seems to be leaning toward 'pre-eq'. I think that it boils down to your confidence in the engineer. I have heard party bands that he's engineered and he's done a decent job. It's difficult to make a judgement when your on stage behind the FOH. I might sneak of stage with my radio pack at the next sound check just to satisfy my curiosity. Being told 'You sounded great' by the average punter carries no weight with me as most of them don't notice when you stop playing. Being told you sounded good by another player is a different thing however and that's exactly what Craig 'Basswesty' said at the last local gig. [quote]The worst situation I've found myself in soundwise is a small stage with a huge PA and massive bass bins with a sound man who has a club mix approach to eq-ing the FOH (ie. loads of sub bass). Its next to impossible to hear yourself on stage not simply because of competition but because the sound that comes out the back of the subs can even be out of phase with what is coming out of your rig (think noise cancelling effect).[/quote] May explain the phenomena last weekend when I fired up my rig and got a decent sound which suddenly disappeared when the FOH kicked in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 [quote name='SteveK' post='467230' date='Apr 20 2009, 09:46 AM']Go Pre EQ and speak to the engineer about the sound you like, and [i]hope[/i] that he/she takes that on-board.[/quote] I thought about this but was afraid I might offend the engineer, who is also an old friend, as he may see it as a slight on his abilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I tend to avoid the issue by asking them to take the feed from my sansamp - engineers seem to trust these more than amp outputs and that gives me only two options (eq/sansamp amp emulation) on or off...but I don't mention the off option. I also don't use any drastic settings, just a little bit of low end boost, and a small amount of fake amp or drive. I'm sure that if "my sound" included tons of low end boost and squeeky treble I'd have problems sometimes! The other benefit of using the DI for your out front sound is that you become a lot less attached to your amp - so I can happily use rentals etc when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='467220' date='Apr 20 2009, 09:22 AM']Pre. But get him to listen to the band onstage before the PA is brought in so he can hear how you like your bass rig to sound. If his PA is properly EQ'd he should need to do much tweaking - don't be afraid to advise him on what you want. Alex[/quote] That's assuming that they are going to listen. I was playing at big outside gig and made a point of saying to the soundman that I didn't really care what sound I had (just make it round and fat) but it was very important that he pushed the tops on a specific song as it was slap bass all the way through - he said yeah, no worries, no worries... when you've been in the business as long as I have blx... He never did. That song sounded sh1t... and I sounded like a clown. Perhaps he had a run in with Level 42 and it's put him off slap for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) [quote name='BassBod' post='467244' date='Apr 20 2009, 10:04 AM']I tend to avoid the issue by asking them to take the feed from my sansamp - engineers seem to trust these more than amp outputs and that gives me only two options (eq/sansamp amp emulation) on or off...[/quote] They do trust them - and in my experiance do like them. I have had mine 10 years, and for me one of the best bits of Bass kit i have purchased. And quite often that is all i use, with just the engineers monitor or headphones. Also means i tend to Eq just from the Bass, usually Bass + Treble on the Bass pre-amp full up. Never have any problems with levels Garry Edited April 20, 2009 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I used to be militantly Post. Now, I'm militantly Pre, but I make sure the FOH guy comes and has a listen to my cabs first. And sticks a mic on if possible. That way, I avoid lifeless flatwound 'thmmmp thmmmp'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 [quote name='AM1' post='467219' date='Apr 20 2009, 09:19 AM']Hi again If you don't want to rely on sound guys for a decent bass sound and taking into account your other thread, it would be probably be better for you to wait and get a decent head/cab and use post EQ. In the case of my amp, if the pre-eq button is engaged, this will not affect the outbound signal, i.e. an uncoloured signal will go straight from the amp to the desk. Therefore the engineer has control and that lovely tube sound is lost. You can also use a footswitch then the EQ on the front can be used like a boost of effect (preamp eq) so when you step on the switch the EQ'd sound will be heard through the DI on the back as this is all part of the preamp stage, as long as the POST EQ is ON at the back. With post EQ on, you are sending the amp sound to the desk. On my amp, the line out level on the back lets you adjust the signal being sent to the desk even with the master volume down. This is a good feature as you can turn the master right down to hear exactly what is being sent to the desk without the onstage cab adding to the sound. Just remember to turn the master back up if you want to hear yourself on stage. Ha ha![/quote] Erm, you don't have an amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Actually, I should qualify something - by 'Pre' I mean use a DI box, not the amp's DI... unless there's no decent DIs available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 [quote name='silddx' post='467415' date='Apr 20 2009, 01:08 PM']Erm, you don't have an amp [/quote] I should update my sig I suppose..got an SVT3 a while ago. It is truly an object of deep joy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Mic in front of cab if we have strangers doing the sound, DI pre if it's our regular guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 [quote name='AM1' post='467430' date='Apr 20 2009, 01:28 PM']I should update my sig I suppose..got an SVT3 a while ago. It is truly an object of deep joy.[/quote] Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 [quote name='silddx' post='467440' date='Apr 20 2009, 01:43 PM']Nice![/quote] Yeah! The Precision sounds like sexual chocolate through it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.