chris_b Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 36 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: …after a multi-year journey trying a shedload of other amps and tweaking their EQ’s to kingdom come. At least you got there. So did I, and in the process I learnt that having to take wild swings at the EQ, meant I had the wrong amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 As a general rule, look for an amp that requires you to cut, rather than boost the eq to get the sound you want. If you have to make major changes to get the sound to your liking, it probably isn't for you. Another point worth considering is that it's best to audition amps and cabs together. System synergy and all that. Some combinations (not always from the same manufacturer) work better than others. If you're buying just an amp or just a cab, take your amp/cab with you and try them together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waddycall Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 I’ve been using a mic preamp/channel strip for bass for the last 6 months or so and find it easier to eq than any bass head I’ve had. I believe it acts as a fairly flat starting point which makes it easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 On 07/09/2022 at 21:57, wateroftyne said: I think there’s a couple of lines of discussion here. - What do I need to do to flatten the EQ on my amp? - What is the point of a flat EQ? - Why do so many amp manufacturers bake a curve into the EQ that you can’t necessarily get rid of? There’s probably a few more TBH All a bit unnecessary. I was delighted to learn 'flat' on GK is 10 2 1 10 o'clock positions. So much easier to get where I want to be when starting from 'flat'. Likewise 2 10 2 on anything 'Fender EQ stacked'. All the gigs I have had to do with Markbass backline sure went a lot smoother for knowing 'flat' is with the filter knobs at zero and the rest noon. So if one of you gents would actually deign to cough up Ashdown 'flat' it might come in handy sometime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 ...and just to derail this completely! EQ disengaged (by engaging the flat/shape button ), Ashdown designer core tone only (note I didn't say flat) and the OPs 'perceived' flat sound will sound anything but flat if played through cab A / B / C. I learned many years ago (through Bassworld / Basstalk / Basschat) that I actually like the sound that certain speakers make regardless of diameter. Oddly at the time I thought I just liked 10" speakers but it turned out I liked the distorted (not 'distorted') sound of the Eminence 10" drivers in my H&K combos, since then I just use my ears and judge the tone coming from a cab regardless of manufacturer or driver size. Fast forward just a few years and I stumbled on Thunderfunk amps which just worked for me with the EQ set at 12:00... I had plenty of scope to go up or down if room dynamics needed it (which I rarely did) due to the semi-parametric EQ. I've still since then tried different amp flavours to see if I could get even better sound; many/most were 'different' but rarely better (IMHO) so I went back to TF. It appears to have been established that in the world of commercially available domestic bass amplifiers, FLAT physically can't exist but amplifiers should have a position at which EQ can be adjusted. I'm sure it has been said but if an amp gives you the sort of sound you like with the controls set in such a manner/position that you can tweak to meet acoustic peculiarities, then you are sorted. Whether that be a Helix/processor/preamp into as uncoloured a power section/IEM/PA or full fat valve amp into ceramic/neo 5"/10"/12"/15"/18" cabinet is immaterial, it has to meet your needs which will be different for all of us. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waddycall Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) Interesting experiment with my Fender Rumble head (old 150w) and my channel strip. Output from channel strip into effects return on rumble so bypassing eq. Alternating between bass into the rumble and into the channel strip. I left the head flat and adjusted the channel strip to sound as close to the rumble head as possible. Quite an obvious mid scoop there I’d say.f Edited September 9, 2022 by Waddycall 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Channel strips are designed to have flat response with the knobs at zero, otherwise they'd never pass muster in a studio. Most bass amps are designed to have a pleasing tone with the EQ at zero according to the preferences of the B testers, but with different basses, speakers and personal taste what usually prevails is the preference of the actual designer. An exception is valve amps with the classic Fender tone stack EQ, which not being active is incapable of flat. That was of no concern to Leo Fender. He didn't care what the response looked like, he just wanted it to sound good. The consensus is that he succeeded. https://robrobinette.com/How_The_TMB_Tone_Stack_Works.htm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 @Paddy515 it might pay to ask on the Ashdown club thread instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waddycall Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 And here’s what it takes to get my rumble head to sound like the channel strip with eq bypassed- f Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passinwind Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 On 06/09/2022 at 23:40, wateroftyne said: I guess my point could be this: Why do so many amp manufacturers bake in a scoop that you can't get rid of? Not everyone wants one. (see also: Sansamp) They aren't trying to please everyone, they are trying to please enough people to get the best possible market share at a given price point. If you feel you can do a better job of that, have at it! 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, Passinwind said: They aren't trying to please everyone, they are trying to please enough people to get the best possible market share at a given price point. If you feel you can do a better job of that, have at it! 😉 I don’t have to - I finally found a manufacturer that gives me the option of a scoop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 On 06/09/2022 at 14:55, wateroftyne said: Yes, my assumption that it is flat is based entirely on my assessment that it sounds flat 😄 Not really. It's based on the plot that Leszek sent me back in the day. Unless there is other built in shaping that is flat. The power section of that amp is likely to be flat within 1-2dB within the bandwidth that we are concerned with. There may well be an HPF at some point too, but IMHO that should be ignored for our puposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 I measured both my Bugera Veyron (M Version) and Ashdown MiBass 2.0 (now sold to another bass chatter) and both were flat to within +/-1dB to 10KHz when the controls were all at 12 0'clock with no treble or bass boost. Both had baked in HPFs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passinwind Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 1 hour ago, wateroftyne said: I don’t have to - I finally found a manufacturer that gives me the option of a scoop. Cool. Not a hard thing to find these days at all though, so it seems likely that there's a at least a bit more in play here, no? When I was down this rabbit hole a decade or so ago I built a tube preamp just to see how flat I could make it. And by flat I mean measured pretty danged close to dead flat from 20-20KHz: Predictably, it was not all that much fun to play bass guitar through without some flavor being introduced elsewhere in the signal chain. But since it had no knobs there was no possible double meaning for "flat", at least! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 Just now, Passinwind said: Cool. Not a hard thing to find these days at all though, so it seems likely that there's a at least a bit more in play here, no? Not sure that's the case. Lots of heads I tried (Markbass, Genz, Walkabout, TC amongst others) seemed to lack those mids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passinwind Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 19 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: Not sure that's the case. Lots of heads I tried (Markbass, Genz, Walkabout, TC amongst others) seemed to lack those mids. Hence my question.😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Passinwind said: Hence my question.😉 Apologies - I think I'm missing your point...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passinwind Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: Apologies - I think I'm missing your point...? When amps like Genz and Markbass reputedly measure flat/knobs at noon (neither of which I've measured), whatever may be "baked in" must come from somewhere else in the circuit, or perhaps some external factors? It's a genuine question, I'm not advancing an opinion on this just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Passinwind said: When amps like Genz and Markbass reputedly measure flat/knobs at noon (neither of which I've measured), whatever may be "baked in" must come from somewhere else in the circuit, or perhaps some external factors? It's a genuine question, I'm not advancing an opinion on this just yet. I see. Is it the case that Genz and Markbass are flat at noon, though..? I assumed not, because of the aforementioned bakery…? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passinwind Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: I see. Is it the case that Genz and Markbass are flat at noon, though..? I assumed not, because of the aforementioned bakery…? Not sure about the MB amps, but Genzler explictly states dead flat with Contour control full counter clockwise for the Magellan 800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 25 minutes ago, Passinwind said: When amps like Genz and Markbass reputedly measure flat/knobs at noon (neither of which I've measured), whatever may be "baked in" must come from somewhere else in the circuit, It comes from amp voicing, which is response adjustments independent of the EQ not user adjustable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: It comes from amp voicing, which is response adjustments independent of the EQ not user adjustable. Makes sense otherwise every bass amp would sound the same if EQ was set flat (relative to whatever setting is flat i.e. Fender tone stack isn't 3 dials at 12:00). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, Passinwind said: Not sure about the MB amps, but Genzler explictly states dead flat with Contour control full counter clockwise for the Magellan 800. Ah, OK - never tried the Magellan! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passinwind Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: Ah, OK - never tried the Magellan! As a player I don't care the tiniest bit where the knobs point as long as I can get what I need and still have a bit of wiggle room in either direction. But I do enjoy continuing to learn more on the design end, especially since I've retired from gigging and have no plans to ever do so again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 On 07/09/2022 at 07:40, wateroftyne said: I guess my point could be this: Why do so many amp manufacturers bake in a scoop that you can't get rid of? Not everyone wants one. Because the human ear response to sound is opposite to the smiley face Eq. So by having a scoop we are correcting our ears inefficiencies. and getting closer to flat, but all our ears are different and we loose top end as we get older, So some amps have a bright switch for old bass players Just close your eyes and twiddle till it sounds good 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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