Vintage Fenders

[Stub Mandrel]

Last night I played a whole gig with my Fender Performer for the first time in three decades. It's 40 about now (actual dates are difficult but somewhere 85-86) do I say it's vintage.

 

I've had it about 35 years, and the tonal range I could get, combined with the ease of playing (Roto 66 40-95 and whisper-thin 24 fret neck) made its an utter joy to play.

 

I'm not sure what my point is, except having a long personal history with it adds to the pleasure, but it's rooted in the reality of the instrument's capabilities. 

[Mrbigstuff]

I’m either a fool or have a special gift then! It’s a debate that reminds me of that dress during Covid that could be either blue or white depending on people’s eyesight.

[GuyR]

5 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

That’s not the reasons I have them or anyone I know, I just like the whole vibe about them and enjoy playing them  ,but I do agree that some just buy them simply for their value 

We all have our own reasons for playing vintage basses. I bought my first in 1979 and have usually looked to buy them when I wanted a new bass. It’s alway been my default purchase.

As I have possibly said previously, in my opinion the comfortable, worn-in feel of a 60 year old nitro finish neck cannot be surpassed, so the playing experience of a vintage bass has a head start. I have had a number of more modern AVRIs, custom shops, JV Squiers and although they are very good, they are not the ones I reach for when I am searching for Musical inspiration. In fact, I almost never reach for them, when I want the best possible bass.

In my opinion, asserting that other people you have never met own vintage instruments as a status symbol or are part of a cult, are “bonkers”, or buy to prevent others from buying is an interesting point of view.

But it isn’t a view that reflects me, or as far as I can tell, the people I have met that play vintage kit, many having owned them since before they were of significant value.

 

Edited yesterday at 16:17 by GuyR

[Beedster]

There’s no rights or wrongs on this stuff, just opinion 👍

[Burns-bass]

34 minutes ago, GuyR said:

We all have our own reasons for playing vintage basses. I bought my first in 1979 and have usually looked to buy them when I wanted a new bass. It’s alway been my default purchase.

As I have possibly said previously, in my opinion the comfortable, worn-in feel of a 60 year old nitro finish neck cannot be surpassed, so the playing experience of a vintage bass has a head start. I have had a number of more modern AVRIs, custom shops, JV Squiers and although they are very good, they are not the ones I reach for when I am searching for Musical inspiration. In fact, I almost never reach for them, when I want the best possible bass.

In my opinion, asserting that other people you have never met own vintage instruments as a status symbol or are part of a cult, are “bonkers”, or buy to prevent others from buying is an interesting point of view.

But it isn’t a view that reflects me, or as far as I can tell, the people I have met that play vintage kit, many having owned them since before they were of significant value.

 

People with pre CBS Fender basses are like people with MBAs. You’ll know within 5 minutes of chatting, without ever needing to ask.

 

I jest, but there’s a kernel of truth in it.

 

It’s a lighthearted forum and we can all swap views in a positive and humorous way. You certainly don’t need my validation (nobody does), but I’d recommend a breath of fresh air and a walk before buying the £18.5k 1963 jazz bass.

[Owen]

I get the pre CBS thing. I desire one. I have a Jan 5th 66 J. I am fully aware that (bound neck and machine heads notwithstanding) it is to all purposes exactly like a pre CBS one. I like the look of that faded paint, the gloss has gone, it does not need looking after aesthetically. All that stuff is very attractive. I would like a pre CBS because when I was growing up if it was not pre CBS then it was not worth looking at. This is what the cool kids/gatekeepers told me. We all know that is not true, but that narrative has stuck with me. Formative years and all that.

 

Interestingly I have owned 3 Bravewoods. They all scratched exactly the same itches as my 66J does. Of course, YMMV, but for me it triggered the same "Ahhh and Ooooh" responses as my 66. Exactly the same. 

 

If only Mr Bravewood would build me a J5 and a P5.

[Owen]

With an A neck on the P5, obv. 

[Stub Mandrel]

28 minutes ago, Owen said:

Bravewoods

 

How do they get away with using Fender logos?

[Owen]

4 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

How do they get away with using Fender logos?

Dunno.

[Sparky Mark]

Yeah, but they don't make tort like that anymore. 

[Woodinblack]

53 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

How do they get away with using Fender logos?

 

Presumably noone has reported them, or they are too small for fender to have noticed?

[snorkie635]

8 hours ago, Sparky Mark said:

Yeah, but they don't make tort like that anymore. 

Thank God says me

 

 

[Beedster]

12 hours ago, Owen said:

Interestingly I have owned 3 Bravewoods. They all scratched exactly the same itches as my 66J does. Of course, YMMV, but for me it triggered the same "Ahhh and Ooooh" responses as my 66. Exactly the same. 

 

 

Hence my comment re sandpaper and oil earlier.

 

Yes, Bravewood (and Limelight) do instruments that feel very authentic to play, whereas to my mind Fender rarely manage that. I've owned Fender relic instruments ranging from the Flea Jazz to the Jaco Artist (the now stupidly expensive Custom Shop Model) to a Masterbuilt '55, I've never owned a Fender relic that felt like a 60's instrument. Whether this is due to the large scale manufacturing processes of even the small run/niche instruments, to complex business strategy ("we mustn't build new instruments that devalue the 60's instruments on which our legacy is largely built...."), or simply poor luck on my part I'm not sure, because in the grand scheme of things it's really not hard to take a new neck and make if feel like it's been played every day since 1962. Yes, there is mojo in playing a necj that has actually been played every day since '62, but it can be done a whole lot cheaper, and I suspect that in a blind test, few people would be able to distinguish between the real thing worth close to £10k and a well crafted relic worth less than £1k.

 

If I had the money to spare, it goes without saying I'd have a '55 Precision and a '62 Precision (again). But they would be more as pleasurable investments than as instruments

 

 

[OzJzF]

On 28/09/2025 at 07:20, Mrbigstuff said:

 

I disagree because I believe i can hear a difference, even on the clips Andy Baxter puts out.
If there wasn’t, are all those professionals who play them live and in the studio putting up with the maintenance and potentially devaluing their asset for nothing? 
if you do believe it’s a placebo, more power to you because you can buy a much nicer instrument or custom shop copy for a lot less.

I think for freelance professional musicians, especially studio musicians, a large part of the value in owning one is being able to offer a genuine vintage instrument to their customers, regardless of whether it's better/same/worse than a modern instrument. Also they are insured and tend to appreciate in value, maintenance is deductible, so in many/most cases will make be a sound economic choice.

 

PS I am in the camp that thinks there is some magic in an instrument that has been played a lot beyond the feel of it, and I think some of the work done on vibration treating instruments bears this out.

[Burns-bass]

3 minutes ago, OzJzF said:

I think for freelance professional musicians, especially studio musicians, a large part of the value in owning one is being able to offer a genuine vintage instrument to their customers, regardless of whether it's better/same/worse than a modern instrument. Also they are insured and tend to appreciate in value, maintenance is deductible, so in many/most cases will make be a sound economic choice.

 

PS I am in the camp that thinks there is some magic in an instrument that has been played a lot beyond the feel of it, and I think some of the work done on vibration treating instruments bears this out.

Agree with this. The irony in this, of course, is that most of the instruments used on our favourite records weren't vintage at all. A '59 Les Paul was 10 years old when Led Zep 1 was released. The Strat Hendrix played at Woodstock was 1 at the time. Jaco's iconic '62 jazz was just a teenager when he recorded his debut album, etc. 

 

I think there is magic in some old instruments, and it doesn't really matter whether it's almost entirely psychological. Perhaps it's the price and how inflated they all seem, even compared to a few years ago.

 

Or maybe I'm still the person who remembers a Mars bar costing 25p and is upset they're now 80p (or whatever they cost). This will play a big part in it I'm sure. (It's certainly not envy, because I've owned them and could own them now if I wanted to.)

[Reggaebass]

24 minutes ago, OzJzF said:

I think for freelance professional musicians, especially studio musicians, a large part of the value in owning one is being able to offer a genuine vintage instrument to their customers, regardless of whether it's better/same/worse than a modern instrument

Yes I agree, isn’t this what Sean Hurley does with his 61 and 66 in the studio and sometimes live, and I know he uses his custom shop also 

[Owen]

I have turned up at a studio and taken out a vintage instrument and the artist's eyes have lit up like a christmas tree. I do not believe I played any better or worse, but the artist felt that they were getting the real deal. 

[peteb]

14 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

Agree with this. The irony in this, of course, is that most of the instruments used on our favourite records weren't vintage at all. A '59 Les Paul was 10 years old when Led Zep 1 was released. The Strat Hendrix played at Woodstock was 1 at the time. Jaco's iconic '62 jazz was just a teenager when he recorded his debut album, etc. 

 

I think there is magic in some old instruments, and it doesn't really matter whether it's almost entirely psychological. Perhaps it's the price and how inflated they all seem, even compared to a few years ago.

 

Or maybe I'm still the person who remembers a Mars bar costing 25p and is upset they're now 80p (or whatever they cost). This will play a big part in it I'm sure. (It's certainly not envy, because I've owned them and could own them now if I wanted to.)

 

To be a pedant, the electric guitar on Led Zep 1 was predominantly a tele! It wasn't until Led Zep 2 that Page used the 59 Les Paul, but then again that was also released in 1969! 

 

I would agree with you about old instruments. I would also suggest that guitars from different eras have a slightly different sound / feel and that instruments that we now consider vintage were used on earlier, ground-breaking recordings leading them to be considered a reference sound that everybody thinks a bass (or whatever) should sound like. 

 

There is some magic in many old instruments. I recently played an old pre EB Stingray at a guitar show and it was far and away the best Stingray I've ever played, despite owning a few decent EBMM ones myself! 

 

[Mrbigstuff]

2 hours ago, OzJzF said:

I think for freelance professional musicians, especially studio musicians, a large part of the value in owning one is being able to offer a genuine vintage instrument to their customers, regardless of whether it's better/same/worse than a modern instrument. Also they are insured and tend to appreciate in value, maintenance is deductible, so in many/most cases will make be a sound economic choice.

 

PS I am in the camp that thinks there is some magic in an instrument that has been played a lot beyond the feel of it, and I think some of the work done on vibration treating instruments bears this out.

Maintenance on a vintage instrument (replacing parts/ rewinding pickups) devalue the originality and the value which is why I doubt they’d use them unless they were just better. Otherwise they’d sit in a case.

[Burns-bass]

1 hour ago, peteb said:

 

To be a pedant, the electric guitar on Led Zep 1 was predominantly a tele! It wasn't until Led Zep 2 that Page used the 59 Les Paul, but then again that was also released in 1969! 

 

I would agree with you about old instruments. I would also suggest that guitars from different eras have a slightly different sound / feel and that instruments that we now consider vintage were used on earlier, ground-breaking recordings leading them to be considered a reference sound that everybody thinks a bass (or whatever) should sound like. 

 

There is some magic in many old instruments. I recently played an old pre EB Stingray at a guitar show and it was far and away the best Stingray I've ever played, despite owning a few decent EBMM ones myself! 

 

I don’t know much about Led Zep to be fair, but the point still stands.

 

The 1977 EB I just sold is far and away the best Stingray I’ve ever played. But I reckon they could replicate it easily enough (if they wanted to).

[peteb]

21 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

I don’t know much about Led Zep to be fair, but the point still stands.

 

The 1977 EB I just sold is far and away the best Stingray I’ve ever played. But I reckon they could replicate it easily enough (if they wanted to).

 

I'm in a Zep tribute band, so I kinda should know these things!! 

 

EB77?? Do you mean pre EB? I'm not sure that you can exactly replicate these things, but that is not to say that old guitars are necessarily good. Certainly the pre EB Stingray that I played at @walshy's display at the Leeds Bradford guitar show was extremely nice! 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by peteb

[Burns-bass]

30 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

I'm in a Zep tribute band, so I kinda should know these things!! 

 

EB77?? Do you mean pre EB? I'm not sure that you can exactly replicate these things, but that is not to say that old guitars are necessarily good. Certainly the pre EB Stingray that I played at @walshy's display at the Leeds Bradford guitar show was extremely nice! 

 

Yes, I sold it last week. I’m pretty sure they could easily replicate what made it special. Neck profile, lovely maple neck, pencil thin frets. They couldn’t replicate 40 years of playing I guess…

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Burns-bass

[tauzero]

2 hours ago, peteb said:

 

To be a pedant, the electric guitar on Led Zep 1 was predominantly a tele! It wasn't until Led Zep 2 that Page used the 59 Les Paul, but then again that was also released in 1969! 

 

The Telecaster that he used for the solo on Stairway to Heaven sold an awful lot of Les Pauls.

[Sparky Mark]

12 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

Yes, I sold it last week. I’m pretty sure they could easily replicate what made it special. Neck profile, lovely maple neck, pencil thin frets. They couldn’t replicate 40 years of playing I guess…

 

 

The Musicman Retro '70s StingRay Bass is exactly that. I bought my pre EB Ray new in 1981 and the original 2 band preamp is much less refined than more modern versions. I understand the retro model has that more "in your face" delivery, as evidenced by many YouTube videos.

[Burns-bass]

17 minutes ago, Sparky Mark said:

The Musicman Retro '70s StingRay Bass is exactly that. I bought my pre EB Ray new in 1981 and the original 2 band preamp is much less refined than more modern versions. I understand the retro model has that more "in your face" delivery, as evidenced by many YouTube videos.

Maybe it’ll mellow over the next 44 years!