The IEM (in ear monitors) Bible thread

[Al Krow]

On 17/04/2024 at 13:12, Al Krow said:

 

Oh dear...I seem to have started something...gonna be in so much trouble if you guys are not hearing the upgrade benefit of the ZARs over the ZS 10s I'm finding - albeit from purely a home A/B and pre-gig! 😂 

 

Road tested the ZARs tonight in a full live band setting. I won't be going back to the ZS 10s!! It was perhaps the first time I've actually enjoyed having IEMs rather than feeling "they do a job". Clarity was so much better - I was able to significantly reduce both the bass in my personal mix and the overall IEM volume setting too, and consequently found myself getting a much better band mix as well as hearing my bass really well. 

 

I appreciate that's just my personal experience from one gig with the ZAR's, after many using ZS 10s, so feedback from the other recent purchasers on this thread, once they've had a chance to use them live also, will hopefully either confirm my comments, or give a more balanced picture.

 

Edited April 22 by Al Krow

[EBS_freak]

You need to be treating yourself to some customs!

[gorandelac]

Al now I have to buy them too...

 

The thing for me with customs is really do you really get a better picture? How much better can it be? I mean, what can be better, sound, headroom, isolation?

What justify iem for 500 Euros and up?

 

Also, can you guys give me a pointer how to record something coming out of my iem to put on my video? Btw. I don't use Apple products, maybe Zoom and then y cable one to my iem, one to Zoom?

Please advise...  

 

Thanks in advance

[JPJ]

3 minutes ago, gorandelac said:

Al now I have to buy them too...

 

The thing for me with customs is really do you really get a better picture? How much better can it be? I mean, what can be better, sound, headroom, isolation?

What justify iem for 500 Euros and up?

 

Also, can you guys give me a pointer how to record something coming out of my iem to put on my video? Btw. I don't use Apple products, maybe Zoom and then y cable one to my iem, one to Zoom?

Please advise...  

 

Thanks in advance

The main advantage will be the isolation. I know when I went from squishy foam ear protection to ACS custom moulds it was a night and day difference. I can only imaging the same will apply with custom moulded IEM’s not to mention that these will probably have better/more drivers than the non-custom type.

As to recording, it depends where your IEM signal is coming from. For example, on my X-Air XR18 desk I can monitor any aux out using the built-in headphone amp so it would be an easy stereo lead from the headphone out to computer to record the IEM mix. 

[gorandelac]

27 minutes ago, JPJ said:

The main advantage will be the isolation. I know when I went from squishy foam ear protection to ACS custom moulds it was a night and day difference. I can only imaging the same will apply with custom moulded IEM’s not to mention that these will probably have better/more drivers than the non-custom type.

As to recording, it depends where your IEM signal is coming from. For example, on my X-Air XR18 desk I can monitor any aux out using the built-in headphone amp so it would be an easy stereo lead from the headphone out to computer to record the IEM mix. 

Yea Forgot to mention, I use IEM simple, line into Rolls and cable to my IEM, I play with a bunch of different situation so this is for now the best option.

[EBS_freak]

Just throwing it out there… have you noticed how angry people become when you suggest there’s an alternative to loud stages…?

[dave_bass5]

1 minute ago, EBS_freak said:

Just throwing it out there… have you noticed how angry people become when you suggest there’s an alternative to loud stages…?

And how angry IEM users get when others don't go with the suggestion they change what already works for them 😂

[EBS_freak]

I don’t care - I already know I know best 😂

 

dinosaurs…

[Woodinblack]

I don't care, I know what works best for me, and if they want something else, that is also fine as long as they buy it, set it up, run it and transport it!

[police squad]

because of my 80s duo, in effect a silent stage, I had a behringer 205 tiny monitor. This really helped my singing, as I could monitor at a lower level.

Then came the IEM which made it better again. They've made me a much better singer to the point that I would rather sing than play bass.

As i've carried the iem into bands I play with, it has improved my bass playing as I can actually hear what I'm playing, I hit the strings not so hard which makes my playing more dynamic, as I have somewhere to go if I need more volume. My bass sounds great in my ears, more inspiring to play.

 

I suppose that I am lucky, the KZ fitted my ears and gave me a good working system with the P2 all in under 100 quid.

I now use the MI-Pro 58 wireless kit, which works brilliantly and sounds fab and obviously is wireless.

 

All brought about by a tinnitus issue that I don't want to get worse. The information on this thread, with the input of you excellent Basschatters has changed my world and if I win the lottery, I'll send you a few sheckles

[Jack]

15 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Just throwing it out there… have you noticed how angry people become when you suggest there’s an alternative to loud stages…?

They're not angry, they're just shouting because they're deaf.

[Chienmortbb]

22 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

I don’t care - I already know I know best 😂

 

dinosaurs…

Yup my lot are dinosaurs. I have just got them on to Active Speakers but still have grumbles about no faders on the mixer. I would gladly put an axe through the Rythym Guitarist's Vox combo.

 

Saying that the drummer, also the oldest member of the band, would love to use over the ear headphones.

 

[Woodinblack]

I got the ZARs tonight, they sound nice, but honestly not too much removed from the ZS10s, they have a more defined middle, and a tighter top. Happy to have them (apart from the cable not being the same, so I need a new headphone lead as the ones they come with are the auto-tangle ones) and they are more comfortable in the ears. I think they will help love with a reduction of cymbal noise! 

[Phil Starr]

On 01/05/2024 at 19:44, Woodinblack said:

I got the ZARs tonight, they sound nice, but honestly not too much removed from the ZS10s, they have a more defined middle, and a tighter top. Happy to have them (apart from the cable not being the same, so I need a new headphone lead as the ones they come with are the auto-tangle ones) and they are more comfortable in the ears. I think they will help love with a reduction of cymbal noise! 

Thanks that's really useful.

 

I had a great in-ear sound a yesterday's gig with ZS10 pro's. I got a really good seal and the answer may be sunscreen. We were outdoors all afternoon and I may have overdone the factor 50, but the triple flange tips slid right in easily and the isolation was great. The only problem was with the mids and uncomfortable cymbal noise which were highlighted now I've got the external noises down to a lower level. It also showed up how much bass was leaking in from the PA, I've filtered it fairly heavily in my monitor mix and had to add a fair bit back in. Next step is to get some customs.

[Greg Edwards69]

45 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

 

I had a great in-ear sound a yesterday's gig with ZS10 pro's. The only problem was with the mids and uncomfortable cymbal noise which were highlighted now I've got the external noises down to a lower level. 

This is the one thing I don't like about KZ iems in general. Their signature sound is quite painful in the upper mid/treble region. I've seen a few articles here and there showing how people have been able to tame the top end with some carefully placed surgical tape over the nozzle. I was going to do that with mine until I got my Sennheisers. I still might try it anyway, as they're my backups.

Edited May 20 by Greg Edwards69

[Jack]

I'm the only holdout in my band still using a wedge, my two guitarists use the xvives and my drummer uses a wired kit that I'll admit I don't know anything about. However it might be time to bite the IEM bullet. Having read most of the thread, the talk seems to be on the pros/cons of the concept and then the iems themselves, but what about the systems? Is there any common wisdom on the best transmitter and reciever?

 

It would have to be wireless. I'd also need stereo, I have hearing damage in one ear (from a botched surgey, not from rock n roll excess). But other than that I'm not too hip on what's good. Digital or analogue? If analogue then what frequency band? If digital, then how would it play with 3 digital guitar wireless and two IEM wireless? The most recent 'system talk' in the thread seems to be the MIPRO MI58, is that the one to go for?

[acidbass]

On 20/05/2024 at 12:15, Greg Edwards69 said:

This is the one thing I don't like about KZ iems in general. Their signature sound is quite painful in the upper mid/treble region.

I have to say that since upgrading to the KZ ZAR's, I find the listening experience altogether more enjoyable.

[Woodinblack]

6 hours ago, acidbass said:

I have to say that since upgrading to the KZ ZAR's, I find the listening experience altogether more enjoyable.

 

I would agree with that.

[police squad]

20 hours ago, Jack said:

I'm the only holdout in my band still using a wedge, my two guitarists use the xvives and my drummer uses a wired kit that I'll admit I don't know anything about. However it might be time to bite the IEM bullet. Having read most of the thread, the talk seems to be on the pros/cons of the concept and then the iems themselves, but what about the systems? Is there any common wisdom on the best transmitter and reciever?

 

It would have to be wireless. I'd also need stereo, I have hearing damage in one ear (from a botched surgey, not from rock n roll excess). But other than that I'm not too hip on what's good. Digital or analogue? If analogue then what frequency band? If digital, then how would it play with 3 digital guitar wireless and two IEM wireless? The most recent 'system talk' in the thread seems to be the MIPRO MI58, is that the one to go for?

I have recently started using the MI Pro 58 and I can say that it is really great. The only downside is , if I clip the receiver pack to my belt, my shirt alters the volume. I havent tried clipping it upside down. So I usually clip it to me back pocket. It's small and very light. Audio quality is first class. I have KZ pro 'something' which I like. I get a great bass sound but I have another set to try but I have a slipped disk and really can't be bothered atm. But when I'm back at it, I'll defo give em a try

[Al Krow]

On 01/05/2024 at 19:44, Woodinblack said:

I got the ZARs tonight, they sound nice, but honestly not too much removed from the ZS10s, they have a more defined middle, and a tighter top. Happy to have them (apart from the cable not being the same, so I need a new headphone lead as the ones they come with are the auto-tangle ones) and they are more comfortable in the ears. I think they will help love with a reduction of cymbal noise! 

 

23 hours ago, acidbass said:

I have to say that since upgrading to the KZ ZAR's, I find the listening experience altogether more enjoyable.

 

16 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

I would agree with that.

 

@Woodinblack good to hear that, as I thought from your initial comment on May 1st the ZAR's hadn't been much of an upgrade over the ZS10s, but I may have been mis-reading your comment?

 

As you'll have gathered from my own comments a few weeks back, I'm very much of the view that the ZARs are a noticeable step up in sound / listening experience over the ZS10s (and also over the Sennheiser 300 and Shure SE215 and 315 sets I previously had) and seems that there's a bit of a consensus starting to build on that from those of us who have tried them.

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:44 by Al Krow

[Woodinblack]

8 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

@Woodinblack good to hear that, as I thought from your initial comment on May 1st the ZAR's hadn't been much of an upgrade over the ZS10s, but I may have been mis-reading your comment?

 

That was my initial impression, but I did gigs the last two saturdays with them and on those gigs, specifically the last gig, my in ear sound was the best I have had. In fact it was the best on stage sound I have had full stop and as a result I felt I played better because I was so into the sound I was getting. Obviously on the other threads as I said, the ME90b was also new which helped the sound it was making, but the sound in my ears was just really good, very full and much more rounded than I had before and some part of that has to be the earphones.

[Al Krow]

6 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

That was my initial impression, but I did gigs the last two saturdays with them and on those gigs, specifically the last gig, my in ear sound was the best I have had. In fact it was the best on stage sound I have had full stop and as a result I felt I played better because I was so into the sound I was getting. Obviously on the other threads as I said, the ME90b was also new which helped the sound it was making, but the sound in my ears was just really good, very full and much more rounded than I had before and some part of that has to be the earphones.

 

That's an amazingly positive review, thanks!

 

For around £55 from Ali Express for a set of KZ ZARs, definitely looking like one of this year's best value investments for both of us!

[Al Krow]

Also Woody - I think getting the EQ / preamp sorted on the IEM feed does make significant difference also to the gigging experience.

 

Even with the ZARs I was getting a harsh treble with my B1-4 "presence" preamp settings which is great for cutting through the mix (has a treble boost at 1.6kHz and 3.6kHz). I've dialled the treble boost back to get something that cuts through a little less but is a better IEM experience. I suspect there may have been something similar going on with your ME90B?

 

Maybe a digital desk (e.g. the A&H CQ series?) that doesn't break the bank will allow for a different IEM EQ to what I'm feeding to FoH, or I guess using an EQ pedal into the aux out from which I take the IEM feed is another option (although I definitely prefer not have one more thing to set up though, haha!). But part of me would like the FoH and IEM feeds to be as similar as possible and the compromise route if it gets you a decent FoH and a decent IEM gigging experience is not a bad one.

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Even with the ZARs I was getting a harsh treble with my B1-4 "presence" preamp settings which is great for cutting through the mix (has a treble boost at 1.6kHz and 3.6kHz). I've dialled the treble boost back to get something that cuts through a little less but is a better IEM experience. I suspect there may have been something similar going on with your ME90B?

 

I was using various models, they all sounded pretty good (but different obviously).

 

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Maybe a digital desk (e.g. the A&H CQ series?) that doesn't break the bank will allow for a different IEM EQ to what I'm feeding to FoH, or I guess using an EQ pedal into the aux out from which I take the IEM feed is another option

 

Well, I can do that on the X18 but I have never bothered, quite happy to hear it flat (which isn 't the same as is going to the FoH as that has EQ on it that my feed doesn't).

[Jack]

7 hours ago, police squad said:

I have recently started using the MI Pro 58 and I can say that it is really great. The only downside is , if I clip the receiver pack to my belt, my shirt alters the volume. I havent tried clipping it upside down. So I usually clip it to me back pocket. It's small and very light. Audio quality is first class. I have KZ pro 'something' which I like. I get a great bass sound but I have another set to try but I have a slipped disk and really can't be bothered atm. But when I'm back at it, I'll defo give em a try

Thanks for the input! Does the engineer mode disable the volume control?

Edited Wednesday at 13:21 by Jack