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JohnA

Is a 1x10 cab enough?

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Posted (edited)

Been looking at the Eden Terra Nova TN110 1x10 4 Ohm Bass Cab, they are on offer at the moment at gearformusic, dont need loads of stage volume (would be used with an Ampeg PF-350).  Just coming back to bass after 20 years of guitar, but the idea of a compact rig is very appealing

Edited by JohnA

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IMO there is always a possibility that a small cab is not going to be loud enough. If you've bought 4 ohm cab then then you're stuck because can't add another cab, which is the easiest way to increase your volume and improve your tone.

You really won't be able to tell the difference between 4 ohms and 8 ohms. The sound difference is small. The benefit of an 8 ohm cab is it's flexibility. You can add another cab if you find you need to.

Again IMO, a 110 wouldn't be capable of pushing bass frequencies out into the audience on any gig I've played in the last 10 years. I've gigged with a 112 and a 210 but I wouldn't expect a good sound out in the room from a 110 unless I had FOH support or was playing with an acoustic guitarist.

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Pretty much what I was thinking, probably been spoilt all these years as a guitarist, back when I played bass in a band I had a 1x15 and a 4x10, and really dont want to go back to that sort of set-up.

  The Ampeg has a Class D power stage, so it pushes out (in theory) 350W in to 4 Ohms, and probably 200ish in to 8, does that affect the advice of getting an 8 ohm cab?

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To give the best advice, I think we need to know:

  1. the band line-up and musical style
  2. you said you don't need loads of stage volume - do you have PA support, or do you still need your backline to fill the room?
  3. if you need to fill the room, what venues are you playing (pub, concert hall, wedding marquee)
     
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I use a Barefaced One10 as a monitor and DI into the PA, which works pretty nicely. I've tried the One10 standalone in a couple of pubs and fell back to a trusty 1x15 each time. To be fair we're a noisy bunch (acoustic drums, sax, guitar, keys) - I could see the One10 working in small rooms and quieter bands. Stick it in the corner on the floor for best bass response.

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8 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

To give the best advice, I think we need to know:

  1. the band line-up and musical style
  2. you said you don't need loads of stage volume - do you have PA support, or do you still need your backline to fill the room?
  3. if you need to fill the room, what venues are you playing (pub, concert hall, wedding marquee)
     

1. Not even in a band as a bassist at the moment, play guitar in a band, but looking to get back in to bass playing as I really enjoy it, probably Americana sort of stuff, I play in a rock covers band at the moment on guitar

2. Most likely, but then again....

3. probably pubs

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5 minutes ago, Kevsy71 said:

I use a Barefaced One10 as a monitor and DI into the PA, which works pretty nicely. I've tried the One10 standalone in a couple of pubs and fell back to a trusty 1x15 each time. To be fair we're a noisy bunch (acoustic drums, sax, guitar, keys) - I could see the One10 working in small rooms and quieter bands. Stick it in the corner on the floor for best bass response.

Sounds like id be pushing it

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On another note, what are the Ampeg portaflex cabs like?  They look a bit too 'vintagy' to be good by modern standards, but I do like the look of them

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I use a singe Barefaced One10 with a big band that has 25 people in it - horns / reeds / drums / piano.

Powered with a Darkglass M900.

 

So yes - it can be plenty. Depends on use and what you are fighting with.

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I've too owned a Barefaced One10, used with a 900W amp (500W into 8ohm) and it is very loud, including no compromise on the low end.  If small form and light weight is high on your priority, I wouldn't rule it out.  Then again with your less-powerful 350W head (putting 200W into 8ohm), that might make a difference.  It's hard to say objectively and for definite.  If you email Barefaced, they give advice for your individual situation, and offer a one-month trial system. 
 

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15 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

I've too owned a Barefaced One10, used with a 900W amp (500W into 8ohm) and it is very loud, including no compromise on the low end.  If small form and light weight is high on your priority, I wouldn't rule it out.  Then again with your less-powerful 350W head (putting 200W into 8ohm), that might make a difference.  It's hard to say objectively and for definite.  If you email Barefaced, they give advice for your individual situation, and offer a one-month trial system. 
 

Probably a bit out of my league to be honest.  See circumstances above, not even playing bass with a band yet, been on guitar for the last 20 years :)  Will keep my eyes peeled for something suitable

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If your equipment includes a HPF and a well set compressor (or a limiter), the system may sound pretty loud. It is reasonable to include these to that otherwise compact system if some noise is in need.

I use a 2 x 10" or a 2 x 12" cabinet and a 440 W amp. Our band is 12 persons (pretty ordinary weekend warriors, I think). This setup is loud enough in clubs and bigger venues, but our band is able to play soft, too. If your gigs are in bigger venues, they usually have a decent PA to connect to (as well as a DI-box for the bass).

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I own our PA, currently play guitar in a band so we normally DI the bass player who uses a Fender Rumble (300 I think) with a 2x10 and it's more than loud enough, like the idea of a 110, but have my doubts

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There's no doubt that a 110 loaded with a driver with adequate displacement can suffice for moderate level requirements. The problem lies in knowing if a particular 110 is loaded with a driver that has adequate displacement. It's a spec that should be prominently displayed in the literature for all cabs, but isn't.

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I play through a Trace Elliot Elf 1x10 but DI into our PA (which has 2x18” subs). On stage sound it great and FOH is great. Personally I’d not play a gig solely with the 1x10 and no PA support but would feel comfortable with a pair of them without PA support.

As people say above, it depends on your band, needs and the other instruments you will be playing with.

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Another quick one.   What are people’s thoughts on Eden cabs, any good?  

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I’ve had a few Eden 410s and they were very good, can’t see that their smaller cabs would be different. Big sound and loud too, had fairly high efficiency specs and the performance seemed to vindicate these.

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2 hours ago, JohnA said:

Another quick one.   What are people’s thoughts on Eden cabs, any good?  

The Eden EX range are great value for money, with a good punchy sound. I had a pair of EX110s 300W and 8ohm each giving a total lower of 600W at 4 ohm. They were very handy and portable and loud enough for pubs clubs etc, but I always DI thru FOH PA. I sold them and got pair of EX112s same power rating and impedance  but I much preferred the EX112s which give more depth and better low end.They are still small and portable but not really lightweight as they are ferrite magnets not neodymium. Ive gigged my EX112s with a GK MB500, a PJB D400, and most recently with a Trace Elliot Elf, all to very good effect. There aren't many cabs that can compete at around £200 a pop.

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I briefly used a Portaflex 1x15 cab and really liked the sound (with the same amp you have). Also, the ability to mount it on the flip top cab lid made shifting it easier as it was one (light) lump.

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Welcome back to the bass. 

light weight is where we are at nowadays. Some of the old gear still sounds good but few of us would trade the sheer practicality of compact and lightweight for possible improvements in tone, if they do actually exist.

I think you need to think in terms of building a system. There are a couple of choices to make up front. Do you want to go with a flat response monitor on stage and generate your tone with electronics or do you want to have an amp which will be used to give you your tone? Separately you need to decide I you want to use the PA to provide your bass to the audience or to provide all or most of the bass from your back line? Obviously if you do then you need a bigger system especially if you are likely to ever play in bigger venues.

The first thing then is tone. Choose based on how it sounds, not on some notion of size. If you are going to work with amp emulators then they are going to work best with systems that add no coloration of their own. Some bassists are using PA speakers on stage to achieve this. Look up FRFR on this site. If you want the amp/speaker/combo to be part of your tone then choose on how it sounds first and foremost. Start with a single 8ohm speaker and you can add a second for extra volume if you need it. If you add an identical speaker you will hold onto 'your'tone.

I play in a number of bands. I've gone for flexibility.  A 300/500W amp and a couple of 12" speakers. A single 12 is enough for rehearsals and small gigs and plenty if you go through the PA. Adding a second let's me play bigger venues without PA support. I don't often play with PA provided but the festivals we do play I have been let down more often than not by the sound engineers so now I take everything with me. If someone mucks up I have the backup on stage and if not well I don't have to turn the master volume up.

I've not found a single 10 to be quite enough unless you filter out some of the deep bass, and/or use compression. Most decent 12's will match all but the loudest drummer. If you are looking for somewhere to start and you want to be as light and compact as possible I'd say go for a single 12 at 8ohms and an amp which will drve 300W into 8/500 into 4ohms. That's unless you decide to go down the FRFR on-stage monitor route. You can add a second matching 12 later if you join a band and find you need it.

Mainly though listen to the sound.

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35 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

Welcome back to the bass. 

light weight is where we are at nowadays. Some of the old gear still sounds good but few of us would trade the sheer practicality of compact and lightweight for possible improvements in tone, if they do actually exist.

I think you need to think in terms of building a system. There are a couple of choices to make up front. Do you want to go with a flat response monitor on stage and generate your tone with electronics or do you want to have an amp which will be used to give you your tone? Separately you need to decide I you want to use the PA to provide your bass to the audience or to provide all or most of the bass from your back line? Obviously if you do then you need a bigger system especially if you are likely to ever play in bigger venues.

The first thing then is tone. Choose based on how it sounds, not on some notion of size. If you are going to work with amp emulators then they are going to work best with systems that add no coloration of their own. Some bassists are using PA speakers on stage to achieve this. Look up FRFR on this site. If you want the amp/speaker/combo to be part of your tone then choose on how it sounds first and foremost. Start with a single 8ohm speaker and you can add a second for extra volume if you need it. If you add an identical speaker you will hold onto 'your'tone.

I play in a number of bands. I've gone for flexibility.  A 300/500W amp and a couple of 12" speakers. A single 12 is enough for rehearsals and small gigs and plenty if you go through the PA. Adding a second let's me play bigger venues without PA support. I don't often play with PA provided but the festivals we do play I have been let down more often than not by the sound engineers so now I take everything with me. If someone mucks up I have the backup on stage and if not well I don't have to turn the master volume up.

I've not found a single 10 to be quite enough unless you filter out some of the deep bass, and/or use compression. Most decent 12's will match all but the loudest drummer. If you are looking for somewhere to start and you want to be as light and compact as possible I'd say go for a single 12 at 8ohms and an amp which will drve 300W into 8/500 into 4ohms. That's unless you decide to go down the FRFR on-stage monitor route. You can add a second matching 12 later if you join a band and find you need it.

Mainly though listen to the sound.

Thanks for the 'welcome back to bass', and the detailed response

For now I'm planning on using the little Ampeg as I already own it, possibly will mess with my Helix in to the FX return and use the Ampeg as a power amp.  The Ampeg does 250W @ 8 Ohms, 350 in to 4 ohms.

 Gone totally in to the FRFR approach with guitar, Helix to PA with a dB technologies FM10 as a monitor, and it works great.  Bass sounds good through the dB at home volumes, but suspect it would blow up if used in anger.  Just spotted a TKS 112 in the classifieds and seriously considering that.  The Eden TN110, looks great, is cheap but I suspect wont be enough on the oomph front

 

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28 minutes ago, JohnA said:

 Gone totally in to the FRFR approach with guitar, Helix to PA with a dB technologies FM10 as a monitor, and it works great.  Bass sounds good through the dB at home volumes, but suspect it would blow up if used in anger.  

Since you already have a Helix, I don't see what the Ampeg brings -- sell it :D  I gig with an RCF 1x12 and it's really loud.  A more compact 1x12 is the QSC CP12 although I haven't tried it myself (but I've used other QSC speakers and they're good).   I'm really happy with modelling and I sold all my aforementioned Barefaced cabs and amp last year.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

Since you already have a Helix, I don't see what the Ampeg brings -- sell it :D  I gig with an RCF 1x12 and it's really loud.  A more compact 1x12 is the QSC CP12 although I haven't tried it myself (but I've used other QSC speakers and they're good).   I'm really happy with modelling and I sold all my aforementioned Barefaced cabs and amp last year.

The Ampeg brings simplicity which I really like about it, I do have a HK 12" active sitting in the garage, I'll give that a bash.  Just sold a Yamha DXR10, that might have done the job, but really like the idea of a 'proper amp and cab' for bass

Edited by JohnA
added more info

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18 hours ago, fretmeister said:

I use a singe Barefaced One10 with a big band that has 25 people in it - horns / reeds / drums / piano.

Powered with a Darkglass M900.

 

So yes - it can be plenty. Depends on use and what you are fighting with.

Exactly the same here, but add guitars to the line-up, except I use a GenzBenz Streamliner 900 turned waaaay down.  Rehearsals, workshops, small gigs.

The only time I felt a struggle was when playing outdoors on a bandstand in a park.

Then I needed the GB 2-12.

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