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Wonky2

Cab change- bad move :(

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Posted (edited)

Guys I’m just so miserable tonight.....

had 1st rehearsal with a new cab and had quite easily the worst sound I’ve ever had , I mean totally uncontrollable flappy mud.

 

i use a mB lm3 and did use a single 8ohm 210p traveller cab, the sound was tight, punchy  , but I wanted just a little more low width.

not wanting to move to the size of a 15” cab, i went for the Mb 121h cab thinking this would be a happy compromise....

maybe it was the room? But the sound was just either uncontrollable bottom end swell or flappy and unresponsive.

i absolute hated it and had one of them hideous rehearsals were you just cannot fix your sound no matter what.

first if all, I moved away from the corner, then away from the wall (rear ported cab) then lifted it up off the floor.....no joy no matter what I did

 

i want my 210 traveller back 🤨#bummed

 

Edited by Wonky2

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Posted (edited)

Your Traveller is a small cab and so will attenuate the low end. The 112 cabs are bigger so will sound bigger and lower if you don't control the EQ. Sounds like you're pushing the EQ to far. Dial it all back.

On my LM2 I had the controls at noon and the 2 filters off, that's fully anti-clockwise. It made a great sound for me.

Edited by chris_b

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The 121H is a very different configuration to the 210P.  The former has bigger lows and is generally smoother in tone, whereas the latter is much punchier, typical of the difference between 10 and 12 inch drivers.

As Chris says, EQ again from flat and build your new sound.  If it really doesn't work for you then going back to the 210 is probably your best bet.  

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I found when I ran a LM3 and 2 x MB 112 NY cabs, I ran everything flat but had to dial the bass back to 10 o clock and the low mids back to 11 o clock. Very rarely could I run everything totally flat. Occasionally I would depending on the room so don't give up hope just yet as it might of been the room.

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I realised about 6 months ago that I just don't like 12" cabs. 

I'm currentlyusing a traveller 102p and like it alot.  I tried it side by side against a NY121, which I instantly disliked, and a few other 12"'s and it just gave me more of the sound I like.

My first ever bass amp was a Eden EC10 - a small 10" practice combo; I loved the sound and perhaps that set my tonal preference.

When I joined a band and upgraded to a GK head, I got a GK 410 for gigging and a Hartke Hydrive 12" for rehearsals.  I loved the 410 but never warmed to the 12" cab.  I upgraded that to a Barefaced Super Compact, another 12", thinking maybe it was a Hartke thing but I still didnt get on with it so that went too and hence the MB TRV 102P now being my cab of choice.

Playing with the EQ is definitely a good idea, even with my traveller 10" cab I'm a long way from flat but perhaps like me you just prefer the tightness and punch delivered by 10s.

 

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Do MB cabs sound better after a few hours playing?  My BF 212 sounded poor out the box, but a couple of rehearsals in and wow.

Also flatten all EQs and tweak to suit.  I have the LM3 and run all EQ at noon, and the filters off.  I tried gigging with the filters on a tad, and the sound was weak, so defo filters off.  

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10s and 12s imo are very different beasts. I've enjoyed using both but they are different and it might take you a while to get used to the 12. I've sometimes felt the 12 is not tight enough and has flap on the lows but then the tradeoff is that you do get bigger rounder lows. I used a 210 the other night and it was great but lacked depth in some regards...

Sometimes it takes a bit of experimentation to find a line of best fit. I'm still trying after 30 years.....!

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Posted (edited)

The Markbass 12" cabs have a reputation for rolling off the high end to give a 'warmer' (if you like it) or alternatively described as 'muddier' sound (by those who don't like it!). They're certainly not as crisp as either BF or Vanderkley cabs and from what you're saying not as crisp as the MB 210s.

In addition to cutting the bass a touch, it's also worth boosting the treble around the 3 kHz to 5 kHz range to counter the high end roll off. 

Unfortunately the EQ on the LM3 has a big gap between the high mids (800 Hz) and treble (10 kHz) so you will likely need a separate EQ pedal, but one of the cheaper Zoom multifx eg the MS-60B should cover this off for you (and do a lot more besides!). 

Edited by Al Krow

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Thanks for the advice guys....glad to hear I’m not alone.

i did run the eq flat, and then with bass and low mid cut to around 10 o clock, it reduced the boom but the sound became somewhat clatery...?

i tried pushing the mids.... still couldn’t get a nice sound.

 

turned off both filters. Better, but still the troupe of sound that just makes you want to pack up and go home.

 

im kicking myself because I foolishly sold the 102p three days before!!!

the reason I made the move from the 2x10 , as much as I loved the sound , which to be fair was hard to get a bad sound at all, I just wanted a bit more thump. Thicken the gravy a bit....

 

this 121h was just uncontrollable , anything played on the e string was a swell of reverberating frequency mess...

 

not a fan. 🤨

 

 

 

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Hmmm...if that's the case worth checking whether the speaker is 100%? That doesn't sound right to me - I used a MB 12" cab as part of my AC 121 Lite combo for 4 years and it did a sterling job in rehearsals and gigs.

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15 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Hmmm...if that's the case worth checking whether the speaker is 100%? That doesn't sound right to me - I used a MB 12" cab as part of my AC 121 Lite combo for 4 years and it did a sterling job in rehearsals and gigs.

How do I “check it”?

I also found I was driving my amp vol higher than I ever have....?

i will give it another try....

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17 minutes ago, Wonky2 said:

How do I “check it”?

Need to get some of our cab experts involved to point you in the right direction on this.

My 'easy' solution would be to take it to a store and A/B it against a new MB 121H cab and see how it sounds in comparison. Obviously that's gonna depend on how close you are to a store with one in stock. 

 

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Need to get some of our cab experts involved to point you in the right direction on this.

My 'easy' solution would be to take it to a store and A/B it against a new MB 121H cab and see how it sounds in comparison. Obviously that's gonna depend on how close you are to a store with one in stock. 

 

Unfortunately none near by (Runcorn)...

 

gonna try a different room next week for rehearsal.

i had thought to maybe try one of them floor uncoupling mat jobbies but I did try it sat on top of an old ashdown which was in the studio, no real difference.

 

what if preferred with rear ported cabs? Away from a wall or against it?

i was originally set up just forward of a corner in the room but moved out of the corner along the wall and pulled out to about two foot .

this isn’t possible in gig environments .....

 

if inly i played in a dub reggae band, I’d be living it 😂👍🏻

Edited by Wonky2

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Also worth noting, when I picked the cab up, I did a/b it against the 210 at home (big room, pretty loud) , it had notable bottom end advantage but no issue like the bursts of rediculas low frequency I got the other night from e string.

whats more, at home, together they sounded unbelievably good. I mean perfect.

i figures I’d never need to use the two and let the 210 go, like a fool.

 

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Posted (edited)

Do you have or have access to an hpf? I use a markbass 121H traveller (the old design) and have found using an hpf to be a revelation. 

I too find that the cab can sound a little dark sometimes and can get quit boomy in certain environments which is near impossible to dial out on the amp head alone. FWIW I used to use a LMII head and couldn’t get on with the eq centres, so switched to a Carvin BX700 which has a ton of eq options, but sadly not an hpf. However, I could cut 50hz and boost 80hz which improved things somewhat which I could never do with the LMIIs limited eq section. But some rooms still proved to be an issue. 

I recently started using a helix - the global eq with hpf was one of the main draws for me. I’m using a GK amp sim straight into the fx return of the amp head, with a little low cut with the hpf.

Wow, what a difference. Tight, fat bottom end without the flab and mud. 

Edited by Greg Edwards69
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Cheers Greg, what you describe is exactly what I found.....

it was just not happening for me and my delve into 12” cabs was brief, very brief at just one outing, but that was enough for me to be certain I needed to return back to 10’s.

ive now done that and my problem is gone.

the cab will be great for someone else I guess but for me we just didn’t get on.

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Interestingly we tried out this cab in the shootout at the South West bass bash. It was the one that polarised opinion. For half the people there it was the best cab, and it was up against some pretty great opposition. Most of the rest voted it bottom. Louder than the rest and loads of warm woolly bass. 

I don't think this is about being a 12, it's about the damping of the cone by the magnet and cab. All the other cabs had more expensive 12's with really powerful magnets on them and the bass was much better damped. All that warm bass can sound lovely in the right room but is going to excite room resonances in a lot of venues, as you found. An HPF will remove some of the frequencies you don't want. In the end though if you were happy with your sound then going back to it is the right thing to do.

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On 30/04/2019 at 19:02, Greg Edwards69 said:

That’s interesting Phil. I’ve experienced the ‘one loud note’ phenomenon a number of times. This explains why. 

That’s actually a good description of what it was doing, one loud note, but at deafening frequencies that brought on a frown from all in said room.

i didnt have the desire to continue with this cab so went back to 10’s.

last nights session confirmed to me I had made the absolute right choice.

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Life is too short for poor tone. 

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