Bluewine Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) An old topic , but always a good discussion. Bar and Pub Band Level Finding a gigging band is a challenge for most of us. A lot of it depends on where you live, how long you've been on the scene and how well your networked. Walking into an established band with a nice book of business is very rare for most of us. I'll start with a few bullet points to reveiw and discuss. 1. Look at the area you live in and determine if seeking out a gigging band is even realistic. 2. Look at your skill set, understand your strengths, weaknesses and experience. What can you bring to a band. 3. Only audition for bands that meet most of your requirements. 4. Make sure you understand the history and infrastructure of the band. A. What is their business model for booking. Do they have a member that's good at sales and maintaining business. How much business is from reaching out for new business, existing business and call ins. What's the percentage breakdown. B. Does the band own their own production with off stage talent ( dedicated sound and lighting) C. How much personal turnover has the band gone through over the past 12 months. 5. What type of reputation does the band have as well as the individual members? 6. What type of social media presence does the band have? I guess there are still some successful gigging bands with none. But to be honest, I have no idea how a gigging band can get by without it. 7. Last but not least. Make sure your Flake-Ometer is on at all times when checking out an opportunity. You decide what's important to you. Joining the wrong band can be frustrating and could potentially sour you on being in bands forever. Love to hear your comments. Blue Edited June 7, 2018 by Bluewine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikay Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 The two most important things for me when looking for a band are the type of music and the people in the band. If these two feel right then the rest of it can usually be worked on if it's not already there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 7 hours ago, Bluewine said: An old topic , but always a good discussion. Bar and Pub Band Level... That's one heck of a list for a pub band, in my opinion. If looking for a full-time job, or career, maybe I'd agree with a lot of the points, but for 'week-end warrior' bands, for folks with a 'real' job for the mortgage, I'd suggest it's royal overkill. Is it fun..? Do you get on with the band members..? Is the gigging frequency compatible with other stuff going on..? That's about it, I'd say, for a great many of us. For a more serious gigging musician, I'd say that depping brings about the best opportunities, with the bonus of knowing exactly what the band does from having played with 'em on gigs, if a permanent offer comes up, as well as the contacts it offers. No real need to go about it like an accountant, I say. Just my tuppence-worth. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueno Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Spot on, Dad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Dad3353 said: That's one heck of a list for a pub band, in my opinion. If looking for a full-time job, or career, maybe I'd agree with a lot of the points, but for 'week-end warrior' bands, for folks with a 'real' job for the mortgage, I'd suggest it's royal overkill. Is it fun..? Do you get on with the band members..? Is the gigging frequency compatible with other stuff going on..? That's about it, I'd say, for a great many of us. For a more serious gigging musician, I'd say that depping brings about the best opportunities, with the bonus of knowing exactly what the band does from having played with 'em on gigs, if a permanent offer comes up, as well as the contacts it offers. No real need to go about it like an accountant, I say. Just my tuppence-worth. Agreed. I play for fun, any money earned beyond expenses is a bonus. If I like the people and I like the music than that's it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Dad3353 said: That's one heck of a list for a pub band, in my opinion. Not really, IMO, though I'd do it in a slightly different order. * What's the local band scene like? Anyone out there that fits your aims, likes? * You see an ad. Does the band have a FB page, web site to check out? * Having made contact: Why is there a vacancy? Is there a lot of personnel turnover? * Who gets the gigs? Is there any sort of plan or do bookings just sort of dribble in on an ad-hoc basis * Lights, sound? Who humps it? (preferably not me) Then I'd ask them * How often do they rehearse? Where? * Who decides on the songs, set-list? * How many of the band are deluded fantasists; crazed, talent-less authoritarians; unreliable flakes; burdened with sick or unreasonable spouses? Then I'd do what I always do and tell them to poke it anyway. Edited June 7, 2018 by skankdelvar Edited for: cordiality 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I think Blues list is pretty comprehensive, and pretty spot-on if wanting to avoid waste of time bands that talk about being in a band, but don`t actually do much/anything. If the people in a prospective band passed that list then I`m pretty sure I`d be able to get on with them, unless they were politicos, on either side of the spectrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 10 hours ago, ikay said: The two most important things for me when looking for a band are the type of music and the people in the band. If these two feel right then the rest of it can usually be worked on if it's not already there. When looking for a band or when looking for a busy working band? There might be a difference. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Dad3353 said: That's one heck of a list for a pub band, in my opinion. If looking for a full-time job, or career, maybe I'd agree with a lot of the points. Remember Pub and Bar bands also play festivals and fairs, which by the way, are not merely handed to any band. It takes a business strategy to land those gigs. The list may or may not be overkill. We're talking about busy bands with consistent bookings. My position , it rarely happens with a " Willy Nilly" or Loosey Goosey" approach to the business. Blue Edited June 7, 2018 by Bluewine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 10 hours ago, Dad3353 said: For a more serious gigging musician, I'd say that depping brings about the best opportunities, with the bonus of knowing exactly what the band does from having played with 'em on gigs, if a permanent offer comes up, as well as the contacts it offers. No real need to go about it like an accountant, I say. That's a legitimate point or position. However, it gets back to one of my bullet points. Is depping realistic for everyone? Personally there's no band that I'd have depping opportunities with. Depping is not real big in my neck of the woods. And depping isn't really joining a band. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 8 hours ago, mikel said: Agreed. I play for fun, any money earned beyond expenses is a bonus. If I like the people and I like the music than that's it. I always have fun playing, however I don't play for fun.I play for a set fee. This thread is about those looking for bands in order to gig and make money consistently. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Dad3353 said: That's one heck of a list for a pub band, in my opinion. If looking for a full-time job, or career, maybe I'd agree with a lot of the points, but for 'week-end warrior' bands, for folks with a 'real' job for the mortgage, I think it would be difficult if not impossible to depend on gig money to pay a mortgage. However there are those with extremely low mortgage payments. Still nothing wrong with an extra $400.00 bucks in your wallet after a weekend of gigging. Blue Edited June 7, 2018 by Bluewine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Lozz196 said: I think Blues list is pretty comprehensive, and pretty spot-on if wanting to avoid waste of time bands that talk about being in a band, but don`t actually do much/anything. If the people in a prospective band passed that list then I`m pretty sure I`d be able to get on with them, unless they were politicos, on either side of the spectrum. Agreed, those of us that have been around for a few summers know that bands with no plan but a lot of "talk", usually turn out to be just that. A lot of talk. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 4 hours ago, skankdelvar said: Not really, IMO, though I'd do it in a slightly different order. * What's the local band scene like? Anyone out there that fits your aims, likes? * You see an ad. Does the band have a FB page, web site to check out? * Having made contact: Why is there a vacancy? Is there a lot of personnel turnover? * Who gets the gigs? Is there any sort of plan or do bookings just sort of dribble in on an ad-hoc basis * Lights, sound? Who humps it? (preferably not me) Then I'd ask them * How often do they rehearse? Where? * Who decides on the songs, set-list? * How many of the band are deluded fantasists; crazed, talent-less authoritarians; unreliable flakes; burdened with sick or unreasonable spouses? Then I'd do what I always do and tell them to poke it anyway. That's a great list Skankdelvar. I forgot about how important it is to find out why there's an opening. Here's something else. I remember once after reviewing live video clips of a band ,I flipped over their guitarist. And was interested just on the basis of said guitarist. During the first call with the Band Leader I found that guitarist as well as other members were no longer in the band. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) On 07/06/2018 at 20:17, Bluewine said: That's a great list Skankdelvar. Thanks, Blue, but it's basically your list with the order shuffled around and a bit of mordant snark thrown in at the end. H'mmm. Mordant Snark... good name for a 60's garage / psychedelic outfit. All Hail The Snark: Milwaukee's hottest new band 1967 Edited June 8, 2018 by skankdelvar 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) I don't want to discount my Flake-O"Meter bullet point. I bet all of us can detect "nut jobs", "goof balls", egotistical types, and " A Holes" rather quickly. We sometimes overlook these guys thinking it's a fluke or they'll change Word to the wise. It's neverr a fluke and those guys never change. Blue Edited June 7, 2018 by Bluewine 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, Bluewine said: I don't want to discount my Flake-O"Meter bullet point. I bet all of us can detect "nut jobs", "goof balls", egotistical types, and " A Holes" rather quickly. We sometimes overlook these guys thinking it's a fluke or they'll change Word to the wise. It's neverr a fluke and those guys never change. Blue Oh, how true 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I think that Blue’s original list was pretty sound, if a touch excessive on one or two points – do you really need a dedicated sound engineer / lighting guy for a pub band or is that just another mouth (or two) to feed?? I recently saw an article about this subject that I thought mad a lot of sense. I’m not sure who wrote it, but some pro who gets decent gigs, who said that there were three elements that he considered before taking a gig: the music, the hang and the money. ‘The music’ is obviously if the other musicians are of a good standard and if you like the music that they are going to play, ‘the hang’ refers to if you like them as people with ‘the money’ meaning was it a decent payer. For him to take the gig then at least two of those elements has to be in place, so for example he suggests that you might consider a gig playing music you don’t care for if it is with friends and pays well. To put it in context for my personal situation, I’m currently standing in for a band for a few months who are OK but possibly not the sort of stuff that I would normally play, but they are great guys and I’m earning decent money. On the other hand, me and some friends (who are good players) have been trying to put together a side project playing music that I really like but will probably not make much cash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, peteb said: I think that Blue’s original list was pretty sound, if a touch excessive on one or two points – do you really need a dedicated sound engineer / lighting guy for a pub band or is that just another mouth (or two) to feed?? Hi Pete, Agreed to a degree. A dedicated sound and lighting tech would be considered Overkill for bar and pub gigs by most. I'm spoiled as a result of my personal situation. Our band leaders husband happens to run our sound and lights. I will say bringing in sound & lights separates us from our competitors and gives us a more professional sound. But most bar bands are just fine without it. We also probably use more pedal effects than most bands. You do some pretty cool stuff with today's pedals.Like sending presents from my phone. Blue PS: New Live CD is finished Edited June 7, 2018 by Bluewine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Blue, We get it. You play in a bar band and make a bit of money at it. We're very happy for you. We all play music for a variety of reasons - financial, for personal satisfaction, to get away from the family for a few hours, etc, etc. They're all equally valid and even "flakes" are perfectly entitled to play music if they want. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, Bluewine said: I always have fun playing, however I don't play for fun.I play for a set fee. This thread is about those looking for bands in order to gig and make money consistently. Blue I gig consistently and have done for 51 years, but enjoyment is my first concern. I did the playing mainly for money thing back in the day and it was my least enjoyable time in music. Where I live pub band dont do it for the money because there is no way to make a living playing pubs and clubs locally. If I wanted to make money I would join a wedding band and play the lovely, enjoyable and satisfying music they are expected to churn out. Thanks but no thanks. I enjoy my gigs because I like the people I play with and the music we make, if we make money then its a bonus. There is obviously a huge difference between bar/pub bands in the US and ones in Britain. Edited June 8, 2018 by mikel Additions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickeyboro Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 I empathise with Blue, as someone in a band that plays stuff for money, and am very glad he posts topics like this that glean a lot of different responses. For sure there are those who play purely for fun, and that's the other end of the spectrum. But there are enough truths in that original checklist to help anyone doing the 'internet band dating' thing. Talking of that, I got my current gig on personal recommendation. In the previous year, six start-ups failed - I left three, three left me - which has made me think that there's still no substitute for making connections in real life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 23 hours ago, mikel said: Agreed. I play for fun, any money earned beyond expenses is a bonus. If I like the people and I like the music than that's it. Nutshell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Dan Dare said: Blue, We get it. You play in a bar band and make a bit of money at it. We're very happy for you. We all play music for a variety of reasons - financial, for personal satisfaction, to get away from the family for a few hours, etc, etc. They're all equally valid and even "flakes" are perfectly entitled to play music if they want. I'm not sure about that Dan. This thread is specifically about the plight of anyone looking for a gigging band and things you might want to consider when evaluating bands. This thread is not about me or who is or isn't entitled to play music or why we play music. Blue Edited June 8, 2018 by Bluewine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 5 hours ago, mikel said: I gig consistently and have done for 51 years, but enjoyment is my first concern. Mikel, I would never play in a band that I didn't enjoy playing in nor would I recommend it. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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