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2elliot

Cab help... too loud?

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I am currently running a Barefaced Four10 8ohm with an Orange 4 Stroke 500.

The cab was originally purchased to go with an Ashdown CTM100 and that set up was great. That head has now long gone and the cab is now getting pushed by the Orange... it's too loud! The head has a notched volume but the power is pretty instant, the first click is loud, second click is very loud... and on and on. It's easily the loudest set up I've ever had.

My question is if I had a two10 or a 1x15 at 8ohm would the volume be quieter at 1 click than with the Four10? I'm guessing it would be as less air will be moving.

What do you think? 

Cheers 

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1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Gain structure. It can be set so the amp is screaming at 3, but doesn't get any louder than that at 9.

When I had my much missed acoustic 450, my band mates used to complain I was far too loud, and I used to say its only on number 2, but it didnt get any louder if you turned it up past 2.

Edited by bumnote
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Thanks for the replies. The gain structure is very different to an Ashdown, I've had CTM100, ABM600 and a Retroglide through this cab and the volume was roughly at 11 or above using those.

The pad is already on. I could use my pre amp to lower the signal to the head but that's not what I'm asking.

Using the same head set at the same volume but with a smaller cab.. 2x10 or 1x15 will I be noticeably quieter? 

As brilliant as the cab is, I'm not precious about the Four10, It'll be up for sale tomorrow if the answer to the above is yes. 

...and no I don't play in a library, although we have played at The Library in Leeds. 

Cheers 

 

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Yes you will be quieter playing into an equivalent cab with less speaker area. But different cabs have different sensitivity values so you can't say the same for sure when looking at different brands.

Did you say that amp had clicks on the volume control so you can't take it below 1? If so that's a stupid design and I'd be looking at a new amp. Trying to reduce your volume by switching cabs is the wrong path.

Edited by dannybuoy
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Also be aware that if you swapped it for a 4ohm Two10, you would have less speaker area but since the impedance is halved, the amp would be delivering more watts to the cab with the volume control at the same position, so swings and roundabouts! There is a 12ohm version of the cab though and the latest ones are 4/12 switchable.

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The Four10 is a sensitive cab and like all BF designs, it is very efficient but if you are too loud it's the controls on your amp and bass that are causing the problem. Your amp is running something like 250-300 watts into this cab (shame Orange don't provide the 8 ohm number). The compression could be boosting the signal, but if the amp is loud on 1 and too loud on 2 try using the pad and turning the bass volume down.

Do you like the sound of this amp through your cab? If you do then dial the volume back. The cab is good, you proved that with your Ashdown. Sounds to me like the problem is in your "new" amp. If I was dealing with this issue I'd be checking out other amps. Ones with more effective controls.

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3 hours ago, dannybuoy said:

Yes you will be quieter playing into an equivalent cab with less speaker area. 

Thank you. That is all I wanted know.

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5 hours ago, 2elliot said:

Using the same head set at the same volume but with a smaller cab.. 2x10 or 1x15 will I be noticeably quieter?

Maybe, maybe not. There are many more variables in play than just cone area. Unless you have definitive data, which no manufacturer I'm aware of provides, the only way to find out is by trying other options side by side with your present cab. 

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I have a Barefaced Four 10, which I use with a variety of tube (Orange, Fender, Ampeg) and non-tube (Mesa Subway and TC Classic) heads. Yes it is efficient, but I can honestly say I have not encountered this problem at all with any of the heads. The Four 10 is a wonderful cab,  well suited especially to tube heads, I would be looking at a different head before considering changing cabs. 

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You have a (presumably) nice sounding, light and relatively compact setup (one cab)... I would really just look at taming the input signal, either through the bass volume control, or my preferred option: a separate pedal with volume control... some kind of nice preamp or an EQ or something along those lines. 

Using a 210 or a 115 alone is likely to not sound quite as loud (there are many factors in consideration to say exactly just how much of a difference there will be) but I doubt it will make the "too loud" problem into a "just right" situation... and you'll end up with 2 cabs for when you want to be louder...

So, your idea might work, or might not. Taming the signal you feed into the amp, however, *will* work and it requires minimal expense (or none as you probably already own something suitable... and there's always the option of turning down your bass, of course).

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It sounds to me like they may have fitted an incorrect value potentiometer for the volume control. Is there the option of taking it back to the vendor?

Another thing: is the compressor engaged?

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I have 500W and 900W amps that I quite comfortably play in my bedroom. The actual difference between the 300W and 500W would probably not be that great. I think the real is, if you can't adjust the volume of the amp effectively, it's not a very good amp!

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I had a Mesa M6 with a couple of Vanderkley 210’s and had the same problem. Best rig I’ve owned but too much for the band I play in even with volume at 1, so head ruled my heart & it’s now gone. 

In my case I felt that I needed to drive the amp & speakers at certain volumes to get the tone I was after. Could probably have achieved the same with some tweaking on the bass volume or pedals as others have suggested. However, I expect my gear to suit me not me suit the gear, so I moved it on.

you live & learn.

Edited by largo

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2 hours ago, 2elliot said:

I think the real is... I should of bought the 300w version.

If it has the same pre-amp gain structure that would make no difference other than at full output, and then the difference would be slight.

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6 hours ago, 2elliot said:

I think the real is... I should of bought the 300w version.

Thanks for the replies.

 

There will probably not be that much of a difference, to be honest.

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Unless you downgrade to a tiny and inefficient cab it's not going to make THAT much difference. Yes, the Four10 is a loud cab but if you're too loud on the first click of the master volume then you'll still have no way to finely adjust your volume to sit appropriately in the mix.

Could the amp be faulty? This is a weird problem to have, literally never heard of it from anyone!

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Sounds like an iffy control on the amp to me - yes the BF410 is a very efficient cab, but having put a GK1001 into one, I still needed the volume on around 4 or 5 on that amp, which isn`t exactly quiet.

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I'd bet Orange are playing the impress-them-in-the-showroom game and agree with Bill's opinion re. gain structure. It's a common trick. You design an amp to give pretty well all its power by the time the volume is at about 3 and people say "Wow. It must be staggeringly powerful if that's how loud it is at 3. I'll take it." Then they find it has no more to give.

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I have the 4 Stroke 500 as well and yes, it has much more volume on tap all the way up. It is not like some amps that have all the volume in the first quarter of the turn. It is a loud as hell amp. Fits my band perfectly though and the sound is brilliant. I have it pushing a 8 ohm Aguilar DB 410. But I can play on relatively low volume as well. That Barefaced cab must be insanely efficient.

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