Specifics that Make One Bass Better than Another

[thegummy]

So I have a Schecter J bass, got it for around 350 a while ago.

Ignoring pickups and electronics that can be easily replaced, what specific things would be better on a presumed better bass, for example an American Fender Jazz bass? If possible, avoiding vague abstract terms like "build quality", instead mentioning specific differences.

I mean, to a lay person, 2 J basses - as long as there's no problems with the manufacturing process (to the point you'd return it) - would seemingly be very similar. Despite being a "bass player" I'm not that much more informed than said lay person.

[Funkfingers]

For the extra money, you would expect the wood in an American Fender bass guitar to be lighter and prettier than on the nearest equivalent Mexican or SE Asian lookalike. The other critical thing that your money pays for is the time and attention of an experienced finishing person. Here, I am thinking about tumbling of fingerboard edges and fettling of fret ends. Non-essential touches that make an instrument waaaaaay more enjoyable to use.

Another significant difference is the technology that goes into full-on professional instruments. The "better" woods ought to make the neck less prone to bowing or twisting. I love the vintage appearance and feel of a Fender AVRI bass but there is no denying that the modern truss rod and graphite reinforcement construction of the American Elite, Professional and discontinued American Standard holds up better to the rigours of transportation and climatic variations.

[Cato]

Bit of a can of worms this one.

Is it possible to take,say, a Harley Benton Jazz, and upgrade everything, from the fret finish and tuners to installing all new electronics, to the point where it plays and sounds as good as a Sadowsky.? 

I have no idea, other than that buying all the premium components would cost a lot of money in itself, but anyone who has bought a much more expensive bass, and I'm one of them, would prefer to think that it isn't.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Cato

[thegummy]

54 minutes ago, Funkfingers said:

For the extra money, you would expect the wood in an American Fender bass guitar to be lighter and prettier than on the nearest equivalent Mexican or SE Asian lookalike. The other critical thing that your money pays for is the time and attention of an experienced finishing person. Here, I am thinking about tumbling of fingerboard edges and fettling of fret ends. Non-essential touches that make an instrument waaaaaay more enjoyable to use.

Another significant difference is the technology that goes into full-on professional instruments. The "better" woods ought to make the neck less prone to bowing or twisting. I love the vintage appearance and feel of a Fender AVRI bass but there is no denying that the modern truss rod and graphite reinforcement construction of the American Elite, Professional and discontinued American Standard holds up better to the rigours of transportation and climatic variations.

Thanks very much, great info.

The weight thing makes sense as the body of the Schecter J I have feels significantly heavier than a Fender P I have that cost more than double.

P.S. Are you the same funkfingers from "the fret board" forum or just the same name?

[thegummy]

3 minutes ago, Cato said:

Bit of a can of worms this one.

Is it possible to take,say, a Harley Benton Jazz, and upgrade everything, from the fret finish and tuners to installing all new electronics, to the point where it plays and sounds as good as a Sadowsky.? 

I have know idea, but anyone who has bought a much more expensive bass, and I'm one of them, would prefer to think that it isn't.

That last sentence is interesting.

I've always thought it quite hard for a lot of people to really know what exactly they're getting for extra money. I personally have bought expensive things based on the idea that I'm unsure if the cheaper Model X could be upgraded and finished up to be as good as Model X Plus, but I know that buying Model X Plus will definitely get me that level. (Hope that makes sense)

[Cato]

9 minutes ago, thegummy said:

That last sentence is interesting.

I've always thought it quite hard for a lot of people to really know what exactly they're getting for extra money. I personally have bought expensive things based on the idea that I'm unsure if the cheaper Model X could be upgraded and finished up to be as good as Model X Plus, but I know that buying Model X Plus will definitely get me that level. (Hope that makes sense)

I've modded a Squier VM70s Jazz to the point where on paper it's higher spec than a standard US Fender. I did it over quite a long period of time because it was easier to meet the costs that way, I installed high spec Aguilar pickups, a new wiring loom with CTS pots, had the frets dressed and levelled by a local luthier and put a  new bridge on.

It sounds and plays brilliantly, but is it actually a better bass than a US Jazz?

I have no idea.

I also have a couple of £1000 + instruments that I've never felt needed to be upgraded.

I suspect a lot of it is psychological, if you don't believe that you get whar you pay for, there's no point in buying the more expensive instrument.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Cato

[Harryburke14]

6 hours ago, Cato said:

Bit of a can of worms this one.

Is it possible to take,say, a Harley Benton Jazz, and upgrade everything, from the fret finish and tuners to installing all new electronics, to the point where it plays and sounds as good as a Sadowsky.? 

I have no idea, other than that buying all the premium components would cost a lot of money in itself, but anyone who has bought a much more expensive bass, and I'm one of them, would prefer to think that it isn't.

Please see AndyJR's build thread on a Harley Benton Jazz.

[Cuzzie]

Briefly taking aside individual instruments, you would hope that in general there is a level of consistency in QC across the more expensive basses in their ranges which means that there should be more confidence in buying them. There is of course no replacement for trying each individual instrument as someone will always say, “I got a dud from this expensive range...”

Anecdotally I had in my possession a MIM Fender jazz and a Sandberg MarloweDK jazz bass, however you buy it, be it new or second hand, the Sandberg is twice as expensive.

The Fender was a good bass, no question, had I not had Sandberg it would have been more than OK, but just all around, especially in wood quality and tone the more expensive one took it.

[M@23]

I'm sure lots do get Sires or whatever playing and sounding as well at stuff that costs 4 x more. 

Part of it comes down to 'investing' in something for what it represents too. Lots of people buy Sadowsky because of Roger. Or X brand because they're made in England or wherever. It's up for debate whether that makes them better. But, it does make them more expensive. Some people boycott Cor-Tek, I'm not really clued up on that, but it's a whole other thing that influences a buyer's choices. 

[Marc S]

8 hours ago, Funkfingers said:

For the extra money, you would expect the wood in an American Fender bass guitar to be lighter and prettier than on the nearest equivalent Mexican or SE Asian lookalike. The other critical thing that your money pays for is the time and attention of an experienced finishing person. Here, I am thinking about tumbling of fingerboard edges and fettling of fret ends. Non-essential touches that make an instrument waaaaaay more enjoyable to use.

Another significant difference is the technology that goes into full-on professional instruments. The "better" woods ought to make the neck less prone to bowing or twisting. I love the vintage appearance and feel of a Fender AVRI bass but there is no denying that the modern truss rod and graphite reinforcement construction of the American Elite, Professional and discontinued American Standard holds up better to the rigours of transportation and climatic variations.

Funkfingers is right here. Apart from the quality of pickups and electrics, bridge and nut - the woods used by the manufacturer of the "higher end" bass should be of higher quality, be subject to a high degree of selection / quality control, and better seasoned. Add to that, the finish in the higher end instrument will / should be of a higher standard. An example from my own personal experiences here, is the quality & finish of the Mexican built Roadworn series (Yes, I know I bang on about them! lol) - leaving the relicing / roadworn finish aside, I've owned 2 Roadworns (a J and a P) and played several models of their more standard MIM counterparts. Apart from being lighter in weight, the quality of the woods used just seemed / felt another level higher again, plus, the finish on aspects like the rolled edges on the necks, and the edges / smoothness on the frets was what set them apart, along with the quality of the (aged) varnish on the neck....

You could take a Harley Benton, and put top end components in it - it may sound much better, but I suspect the finish and comfort of aspects like fretboard and fret edges would also need attention. Then of course, would you need to re-sand the neck and re-apply a higher quality of varnish / finish? By the time you have done all this and costed your time (even at sub minimum wage) you'll have spent more on the cheaper bass. Of course, I think everyone should try some upgrades and / or repairs to an old bass anyway... it's a valuable experience and can teach you a lot about how instruments are put together.

Aside from all this, there's then the question of resaleability (is there such a word?) You can spend lots of money on a cheaper brand bass, buying pickups, electrics, bridge, brass nut etc etc - but when it comes to a resale, you rarely get that money back... that is, unless you part the bass out and flog all the components separately. Having said all this, I'm really tempted to one day have a go at doing an early Fender P bass, using the HB 50's P clone - like Discreet and several others have done such a smashing job of... Of course, if you're doing it to teach yourself some useful skills, or you just want a model of bass you can't afford the genuine version of, and you are willing to write the costs of the components off (or simply, you aint ever going to sell it) - then to my way of thinking, these are the best reasons for upgrading an inexpensive bass

[chris_b]

9 hours ago, thegummy said:

Ignoring pickups and electronics that can be easily replaced, what specific things would be better on a presumed better bass, for example an American Fender Jazz bass? If possible, avoiding vague abstract terms like "build quality", instead mentioning specific differences.

I mean, to a lay person, 2 J basses - as long as there's no problems with the manufacturing process (to the point you'd return it) - would seemingly be very similar. Despite being a "bass player" I'm not that much more informed than said lay person.

So you're asking what makes a bass different and special and you tell us to discount all the things that do that! Design, materials, quality of workmanship are what makes anything special. That it "speaks" to someone is what makes it special to that person. Personal preference (which can totally irrational and subconscious) does that last bit.

Why do people buy a Jag  or Merc instead of a Dacia? They all do the same thing.

I buy this bass rather than that because the tone is better, it feels better to play and it's got a tort pick guard.

[thegummy]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

So you're asking what makes a bass different and special and you tell us to discount all the things that do that! Design, materials, quality of workmanship are what makes anything special. That it "speaks" to someone is what makes it special to that person. Personal preference (which can totally irrational and subconscious) does that last bit.

Why do people buy a Jag  or Merc instead of a Dacia? They all do the same thing.

I buy this bass rather than that because the tone is better, it feels better to play and it's got a tort pick guard.

The only thing I said to discount is pickups and electronics.

It's just that vague terms don't give me any information whereas specific things like the ones mentioned so far in the thread do.

[Lozz196]

In comparison to my US Fenders, my Mexican one is a good bass, but the tuners aren`t as good, there aren`t the graphite rods, the bridge isn`t as stable, and the pickups aren`t quite as full-sounding. So the US are better for those points, imo. Whether or not they`re nearly a grands worth of money better, well not sure.

[thegummy]

9 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

In comparison to my US Fenders, my Mexican one is a good bass, but the tuners aren`t as good, there aren`t the graphite rods, the bridge isn`t as stable, and the pickups aren`t quite as full-sounding. So the US are better for those points, imo. Whether or not they`re nearly a grands worth of money better, well not sure.

Thanks a lot for the info.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you mean by the stability of the bridge?

[charic]

I've got a Mexican p bass that's been through this

Before I started meddling it was a good p bass

First I upgraded the pickup, Seymour Duncan 1/4lb along with changing the bridge to a BAII - result much punchier sound

Then I changed the wiring loom to a Kiogon Wiring Loom - result - fuller sound and doesn't cut out anymore

Then I changed the neck - Shuker Custom Built neck - result - more attack and a better feel

Just the body and the tuners to go

[Lozz196]

33 minutes ago, thegummy said:

Thanks a lot for the info.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you mean by the stability of the bridge?

Nothing wrong with the affectionately known BBOT - bent bit of tin - but the hi-mass one has indented grooves/runners for the saddle screws. I suppose hard-hitters, of which I include myself, probably find that these help the saddles from sliding side to side. In all honesty I`ve never noticed sideways slippage on my Mex Fenders over the years, but this feature to me is a good idea. Also the end of the strings fits snugly in the hi-mass bridge, so should avoid movement, not that I can see that happening but it`s a feature that would prevent it.

[nilebodgers]

45 minutes ago, thegummy said:

Thanks a lot for the info.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you mean by the stability of the bridge?

The bridge grub screws aren't in tracks, so if you really belt it with your picking hand the saddles can slip sideways. This is actually period correct though - Precisions used to be all like that.

[Snap!]

Edited December 21, 2017 by nilebodgers

[Funkfingers]

11 hours ago, thegummy said:

 Are you the same Funkfingers from "the fret board" forum or just the same name?

"Yeah but don't shout it out or they'll all want one." 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Funkfingers

[Rollin Thunder]

37 minutes ago, charic said:

I've got a Mexican p bass that's been through this

Before I started meddling it was a good p bass

First I upgraded the pickup, Seymour Duncan 1/4lb along with changing the bridge to a BAII - result much punchier sound

Then I changed the wiring loom to a Kiogon Wiring Loom - result - fuller sound and doesn't cut out anymore

Then I changed the neck - Shuker Custom Built neck - result - more attack and a better feel

Just the body and the tuners to go

or right trigger "this broom as 6 new handles and 8 new shafts" 

[charic]

1 minute ago, Rollin Thunder said:

or right trigger "this broom as 6 new handles and 8 new shafts" 

 gotta have fun in this game!

[thegummy]

6 minutes ago, Funkfingers said:

"Yeah but don't shout it out or they'll all want one." 

 

 

Nice one, cheers for helping me out with my queries about various instruments!

[LoneFurrow]

Juha Ruokangas recently published a couple of videos to try to elaborate on why hand-made guitars cost as much as they do. Although he's more focused on guitars, he does offer the Steam bass as part of his range. The principles apply whether considering a guitar or bass, I'd assume. 

Part 1 - Guitar Prices  

Part 2 - Ethical Footprint
 

 

[thegummy]

46 minutes ago, LoneFurrow said:

Juha Ruokangas recently published a couple of videos to try to elaborate on why hand-made guitars cost as much as they do. Although he's more focused on guitars, he does offer the Steam bass as part of his range. The principles apply whether considering a guitar or bass, I'd assume. 

Part 1 - Guitar Prices  

Part 2 - Ethical Footprint
 

 

I've actually watched some of that before and really didn't like it.

Does he get into physical differences or is it all politics?

[kodiakblair]

Interesting to here graphite rods getting a mention. Last year a fella over in the US got excited about his incoming Harley Benton jazz bass,when it arrived one of the tuner screws was squint and he stripped the head trying to adjust it. Sadly the lad suffers from Bi-Polar and this happened on a bad day. Holes werte punched in walls and bass taken outside for smashing.

 

That's when he discovered Graphite Rods in the neck !!

 

£100 basses with graphite rods. Who'd have thought eh 

[spectoremg]

This helps make a bass better than most