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thebrig

Maybe a stupid IEM question, but...

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My ears are shot to pieces and no matter how much I ask, no one takes any notice when I ask if we can rehearse at a lower volume..

I am finding it harder and harder to distinguish the various instruments, to me it's just a wall of sound, and sometimes it sounds like people are playing the wrong chords or the wrong keys, although I know they aren't.

I don't want to spend too much time micing everything up, so my question is:

Would placing a mic in the middle of the rehearsal room which then goes through a mic amp, and then into IEM's do the job of isolating the high volume and give me a decent enough idea of whats being played?

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It can help, but channeling everything in to mono could actually make things worse. I'd suggest using a stereo mic of some sort feeding in to your IEM channel to get a better more coherent version of what is going on in the room. I'm going to try out a Zoom H1 handheld recorder for such a job actually. Even though it is a recorder, it has a line out direct from the stereo microphone elements that could be fed in to the IEM signal path. I've tested the theory with my Zoom Q8 camera and that seems to work very well, but don't want to take a big camera out all the time just to use the audio line out.

Oh and the band won't turn down? If it's causing problems for your hearing, then it's most certainly doing the same for theirs too. Seems odd they aren't fussed about damaging the only set of ears they'll ever have!

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Been going through the exact same thing. Rehearsals and live. I've moved onto in ears for live as onstage it was too loud. Haven't spent a lot of money on the live problem but it works. We have a Behringer X18 desk, 6 monitor outs. Got my own dedicated monitor mix to a little headphone amp then into an LD wireless in ear system. Works a treat. I need some better earphones but...

Rehearsals, ours are loud. Tinitus loud just like gigs. It's the guitarist really, he won't turn down and so the rest turn up. The competition ensures that the sound is mostly horrible. E sounds like a D etc.

I bought a Jamhub and an electronic kit. We rehearsed in my conservatory tonight, I used a Behringer BD, Line 6 emulated sound for rhythm guitar and an Orange Micro Terror for lead. Almost silent to the outside world but sounded great to us. Even out very "traditionalist" loud guitarist had to admit how good it sounded. So far, it's the only thing that has worked.

Not the solution for everyone but if they won't turn down you will lose your hearing! So will they!

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[quote name='dood' timestamp='1484258739' post='3214211']
It can help, but channeling everything in to mono could actually make things worse. I'd suggest using a stereo mic of some sort feeding in to your IEM channel to get a better more coherent version of what is going on in the room. I'm going to try out a Zoom H1 handheld recorder for such a job actually. Even though it is a recorder, it has a line out direct from the stereo microphone elements that could be fed in to the IEM signal path. I've tested the theory with my Zoom Q8 camera and that seems to work very well, but don't want to take a big camera out all the time just to use the audio line out.

Oh and the band won't turn down? If it's causing problems for your hearing, then it's most certainly doing the same for theirs too. Seems odd they aren't fussed about damaging the only set of ears they'll ever have!
[/quote]I use a Zoom H1 to record our rehearsals all the time, I've never thought about popping some IEM's into the headphones out.

I will get myself a decent set of IEM's and try that out next week, thanks for the tip.

As for not worrying about their own ears? I've mentioned it so many times, and no pun intended, it falls on "DEAF EARS" I'm afraid, so I've decided that I will take care of my own, and if they don't care about theirs, then that is their problem from now on. :unsure:

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[quote name='largo' timestamp='1484261774' post='3214245']
Why not just go for a decent set of ear plugs?
[/quote]

This was my first thought too.....
I've been in bands where rehearsal could be a wall of noise - and I well recall trying lots of different approaches, including mics positioned in different locations - in one band I even tried getting someone to record it, so the others could hear what was happening, but I think other members tended to blame the acoustics of the room / the PA / Someone else's amp being too close, or pointing the wrong way etc / the drummer being too loud or changing how hard he played (even when he didn't).

So try the simple solution of earplugs first - might even help protect what's left of your hearing..... worth a try anyway?

Good luck with it, and hope you find the solution that suits you

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What a great great idea using the Zoom headphones out. Never thought of that and Ive got IEM's just sitting in my guitar case! Ive got an AC moulded earplug at -15DB but I just dont get on with them and everything sounds muffled to me (although I put them in later in the rehersal rather than at the beginning which may be the problem) so will try the "zoom soloution" - Thanks!

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[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1484305744' post='3214483']
This was my first thought too.....
I've been in bands where rehearsal could be a wall of noise - and I well recall trying lots of different approaches, including mics positioned in different locations - in one band I even tried getting someone to record it, so the others could hear what was happening, but I think other members tended to blame the acoustics of the room / the PA / Someone else's amp being too close, or pointing the wrong way etc / the drummer being too loud or changing how hard he played (even when he didn't).

So try the simple solution of earplugs first - might even help protect what's left of your hearing..... worth a try anyway?

Good luck with it, and hope you find the solution that suits you
[/quote]Thanks for the suggestion Mark but I've got earplugs and unfortunately they muffle the sound too much.

Your right about the other members all blaming everything other than the fact that they are all playing too bleedin' loud! :(

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[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1484304905' post='3214471']
I use a Zoom H1 to record our rehearsals all the time, I've never thought about popping some IEM's into the headphones out.

I will get myself a decent set of IEM's and try that out next week, thanks for the tip.


[/quote]
[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1484305841' post='3214486']
What a great great idea using the Zoom headphones out. Never thought of that and Ive got IEM's just sitting in my guitar case! Ive got an AC moulded earplug at -15DB but I just dont get on with them and everything sounds muffled to me (although I put them in later in the rehersal rather than at the beginning which may be the problem) so will try the "zoom soloution" - Thanks!
[/quote]

No problem at all! I stumbled upon the idea a while back when I was monitoring off my Q8 camera. The H1 is incredible as it can easily take the full volume of a band without distorting AND gives a brilliant high quality stereo image from the dual microphones. The feed from the camera could go in to the band's IEM mix I suppose too, but for a stand alone set up, the H1 is small enough that it could be attached to a stand and then have a cable run up to your ears directly - I'd probably run a longer cable and my super Fischer Amps 'Stick' headphone amp to keep things tidy and have more control over the ambient level going to my lug-oles. I'm using 64 Audio's A8 in-ear monitors that do a very good job of sounding natural - any excuse to use them as much as possible!!

Dan

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If you want "like real life, but quieter", the logical mic placement is duct tape it to the top of your head :lol:

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[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1484305841' post='3214486']
What a great great idea using the Zoom headphones out. Never thought of that and Ive got IEM's just sitting in my guitar case! Ive got an AC moulded earplug at -15DB but I just dont get on with them and everything sounds muffled to me (although I put them in later in the rehersal rather than at the beginning which may be the problem) so will try the "zoom soloution" - Thanks!
[/quote]glad I'm not the only one that finds these ear plugs muffle the sound, people say they just cut across the entire frequency range, but not in my experience

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[quote name='jrixn1' timestamp='1484315667' post='3214615']
If you want "like real life, but quieter", the logical mic placement is duct tape it to the top of your head :lol:
[/quote]

Duct tape... where is my duct tape.... :)

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[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1484316400' post='3214627']
...new band... ;)
[/quote]Yep, I've thought about it, but these guys are really good and it's one of the best bands I've ever been in, yes, they should be more considerate, [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]but to be honest,[/font][/color] almost every band I've been in has been the same. :(

Is it just us bass players who are the sensible ones? ;)

Edited by thebrig

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[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1484317117' post='3214638']
Yep, I've thought about it, but these guys are really good and it's one of the best bands I've ever been in, yes, they should be more considerate, [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]but to be honest,[/font][/color] almost every band I've been in has been the same. :(

Is it just us bass players who are the sensible ones? ;)
[/quote] Out of every 100 guitarists that come along, one of em will be really good, considerate, sensible, knows what , when and how to play the right thing at the right time, always has the correct volume, right attitude ect ect. That very same one is currently playing for some successful signed act or equivalent successful scenario. The other 99 are in our bands preventing us from the same success.

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[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1484321619' post='3214694']
Out of every 100 guitarists that come along, one of em will be really good, considerate, sensible, knows what , when and how to play the right thing at the right time, always has the correct volume, right attitude ect ect. That very same one is currently playing for some successful signed act or equivalent successful scenario. The other 99 are in our bands preventing us from the same success.
[/quote]
^Truth!

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[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1484321619' post='3214694']
. The other 99 are in our bands preventing us from the same success.
[/quote]

....and not being challenged about their selfish ways. ;)

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[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1484304905' post='3214471']
I use a Zoom H1 to record our rehearsals all the time, I've never thought about popping some IEM's into the headphones out.

I will get myself a decent set of IEM's and try that out next week, thanks for the tip.

As for not worrying about their own ears? I've mentioned it so many times, and no pun intended, it falls on "DEAF EARS" I'm afraid, so I've decided that I will take care of my own, and if they don't care about theirs, then that is their problem from now on. :unsure:
[/quote]

What a great idea! After struggling in rehearsals and gigs to hear myself I was getting pretty cheesed off. Ear plugs didn't help pick out my bass line but did make for a easier time for my ears. I have treated myself to an LD 1000 wireless IEM system and at the rehearsal last night plugged it into the line out of my trusty old Tascam DR-07 that we use for recording. Great result and even the guitards tried it and were impressed so it could lead to less monitoring on stage and less volume.

Great result all round!

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[quote name='simon_says' timestamp='1484905771' post='3219507']
What a great idea! {snip}

Great result all round!
[/quote]

Excellent! I'm really pleased! It's an idea I've had and not really had a chance to try out for ages. I'm yet to get an H1 but certainly the results with my Q8 (and old Q3HD) were very good. Zoom's stereo audio handheld recorders and cameras are pretty ace across the board but I think this simple 'hack' has me totally sold even if it is not really what the device was designed for.

I guess I should do a video when I get mine!

Dan

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ACS Live systen on the cheap! :P

What you have is half way towards a full inear mix with ambient sounds mixed in. Now you have the ambient mix sorted, you'll be hankering to get the rest of it down.

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I have bad tinnitus, but wearing ALPINE ear plugs has solved that wall of noise thing for me. They have three levels of attenuation and I use the highest one. They drop the volume but dont take out or muffle the frequencies so I can still hear every instrument, at a lower volume. Give them a try before spending loads on mic's and in ear monitors.

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[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1484907049' post='3219523']
ACS Live systen on the cheap! :P

[/quote]

Exactly my plan. I've actually a super brilliant idea for a gadget that I think would be of interest to a lot of people not being able to shell out on such a system but also have added flexibility that the ACS Live system doesn't have. (That's not saying that the ACS lacks anything of course!)

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[quote name='dood' timestamp='1484912923' post='3219599']
Exactly my plan. I've actually a super brilliant idea for a gadget that I think would be of interest to a lot of people not being able to shell out on such a system but also have added flexibility that the ACS Live system doesn't have. (That's not saying that the ACS lacks anything of course!)
[/quote]

Does it involve mic stands? Does it involve clip on mics? Explored that avenue before...

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[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1484913968' post='3219625']
Does it involve mic stands? Does it involve clip on mics? Explored that avenue before...
[/quote]

No and no! :)

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