lojo Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Is he profiting from any of the hard work you've put in , have you received anything for it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutomaticWriting Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 Anzoid - Yeah that's the thing, I considered them a friend and they apologised for the first rant, which I got because even though I was annoyed they had this big gig coming up, so I let it slide after the apology but this is a step too far. As far writing goes, they wrote the lyrics and the chord sequence but I created all the sounds and basically the entire song from scratch so they'd essentially be left with a chord progression and some vocals for the two songs we worked on together. The rest of the track ideas were entirely mine and haven't had the singers input yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkgod Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 (edited) Welcome to the music industry, alot of that goes on, its not personal its just music business, some times decisions are made for the better even tho we at the receiving end of them cant see it. painfull i know. with all you have learnt, you could start your own thing and do the stuff you want to do and have the control just get the right guys to do the job you want and dont feel sorry for anyone, they are right for the job or they wrong, no middle ground. but as Jk says.......... [quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1481733456' post='3194676'] Personally, I'd chalk it down to experience and move on. In the immortal words of Les McQueen, it's a sh*t business... [/quote] Edited December 14, 2016 by funkgod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 (edited) Been there. Imagine doing all that you've said and being told that they are getting the original bass player in because they landed the support slot on the comeback Blur tour. It hurts. Move on. It'll rip you up otherwise. Edited December 14, 2016 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 I'm not sure what you are thinking you can do. You can't take back your "work". It will cost you more to take legal action than you'll see out of that "work" in years, and you have no guarantee of success. You've learnt something. Move on to better things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anzoid Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Well, they obviously own the copyright in the lyrics, but as far as I know (and the internet seems to agree... ) you can't copyright a chord progression - I suppose if you could 99.9999% of songwriters would be totally screwed. Now, if they wrote the melody then that would be copyright to them, if you wrote the melody, then that's yours (see the likes of the Tom Petty/Sam Smith - "Won't back down" [url="http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/sam-smith--tom-petty-settlement-20150126"]kerfuffle[/url]). Anyway, this is kind of armchair lawyering - chris_b is right that you wouldn't see much of a result from legal action, though if your Uni has a law department I think it would be worth going along for a chat with someone, if only to set you off in the right direction for future work. That can be a part of moving on - decide not to (as far as it depends on you) allow yourself to get dumped on again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1481738490' post='3194753'] Been there. Imagine doing all that you've said and being told that they are getting the original bass player in because they landed the support slot on the comeback Blur tour. It hurts. Move on. It'll rip you up otherwise. [/quote] And look where it got them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutomaticWriting Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 Nah I didn't mean I want to take back their songs, that's cool, they own the lyrics etc but I meant I wouldn't allowed them to use all the production work I did (it was mainly an electronic song), so they'd once again be left with the original demo that they sent me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anzoid Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 [quote name='AutomaticWriting' timestamp='1481739761' post='3194767'] Nah I didn't mean I want to take back their songs, that's cool, they own the lyrics etc but I meant I wouldn't allowed them to use all the production work I did (it was mainly an electronic song), so they'd once again be left with the original demo that they sent me. [/quote] Yeah, think that's fair enough, unless they want to come to some (paid?) arrangement. They're the ones that did the bridge burning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Daveo Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Clearly you feel disappointed, angry and letdown. This unfortunately won't be the first time this will happen even, doing music for fun this goes on.. The trust element has gone and you will feel a resentment towards everyone and everything to do with this project imo. Move on and don't beat yourself up or make excuses for having to prioritise important aspects of you life, that's a great trait to have. Best of luck with the next one and use it to drive you on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Try to swallow the resentment and part as friends. The music biz is smaller than most realise. You haven't seen the last of these guys (probably) and it's not unimaginable that one day you'll find yourself hooking up with one or more of them again. Being incredibly f***ing gracious to someone who has just been a sh*t also pretty much guarantees that you get the moral high ground. [size=4] [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1481749328' post='3194902'] Try to swallow the resentment and part as friends. [/quote] This, I understand how you feel, you have clearly committed to this in a big way both in terms of effort but also emotionally. You believed you were a team and had each other's backs. You've found out that other people don't share your sense of loyalty, that some are incredibly self centred. Perhaps it is time for you to have a think about what you can get out of this. Firstly it would help you if the artist and the team would go around talking positively about the work you did. If it is to be released then you'd like thanks on any sleeve notes or publicity at the least if not an actual credit for production. If you ever work for them again you'd like to be paid for any future work if not for this. If things don't work out for the singer the way he expects then would you work for them again. If you can imagine any situation which would tempt you then why piss them off. You've behaved well and were sensible enough to put your studies first. Hold your head high, salvage what you can and move on. Next time you know what to expect and you can make sure you get agreements up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yank Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 This has nothing to do with your talent. They used what you created, so you didn't fall short there. From all I've ever heard Pete Best was a good drummer...... Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 (edited) Been through a similar scenario a few times myself with the same band (not your band!). Your "singer" is a duck. Full of himself. Do yourself a favour and dont be his puppet. Makes me wonder what the rest of the "band" think too? They are probably too fekin scared to say anything. Band? Spent a lifetime with the same sort of obnoxious click and regret most of it. Move on. Even if he and his "band" unlikely "make it", you would have been spared all the crap of uncertainty and pain. Sounds like you have "real" talent too. Move on and don't help them anymore. In my experience, a singers definition of a "band" is not what the rest of the musicians in it belive. Rant over! Edited December 14, 2016 by itsmedunc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 It happens and it's why I never get to close to band members. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstuk Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 move on, life's too short etc etc... sounds like the singer is only on the first rung of the ladder to prickdom.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) All this is assuming the 'stand in guy', is interested in gigging one song every hundred years and can produce etc. If they still want you for your other talents but don't want you as a bass player that frees you up to play in other bands while you arrange and produce this project. If you're that good, you might want to think closely in what they're paying you. Wake-up call? . Edited December 15, 2016 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 It wouldn't be unreasonable to ask them to pay for the production Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) Had my fair end of the sh*tty stick with a band when it came down to who wrote what,how and when. At the time it was so unjust that it became the last straw before I left. However, rules put in place by idiots that went against me in a lot of ways backfired when only the material I'd written by the same definition was eventually chosen to be released and I got ALL royalties. They never saw that coming! Neither did I at the time so there you go. Having said that the total amount that came in didn't exactly pay the mortgage off and the dust has long since settled. At the time I would have happily seen them go under a bus but were all well past all that now some 20 years later. As much as its a right kick in the bollocks now, it all adds to your bow so to speak and you. are a better musician for it. Be classy about it. Just say " yeah ok guys. have fun." Its still your talent not theirs. They fizzle out in time and new things happen. Don't dwell on it too much. You can see when this might happen again in advance but next project you can say "last time this happened which is why every one is going to sign this...." Chin up, rise above it and keep moving. Edited December 15, 2016 by bassjim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1481794430' post='3195136'] It wouldn't be unreasonable to ask them to pay for the production [/quote] I was thinking about suggesting he invoiced with a polite letter setting out the hours put in. Thing is; a lot of people can get involved in projects and do stuff they haven't specifically been asked to do. Mainly because they had got too emotionally involved in the project. Difficult call. He's unlikely to get any money might make them realises how much he's put in but also might just make things worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1481798527' post='3195183'] ...Thing is; a lot of people can get involved in projects and do stuff they haven't specifically been asked to do. Mainly because they had got too emotionally involved in the project... [/quote] Hah, yes, just screwed myself over with one of these projects! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I'm not sure if Blue has this term? If not I'm sure he'll agree with it anyway, "never mix business with pleasure". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1481798822' post='3195187'] Hah, yes, just screwed myself over with one of these projects! [/quote] I did it with two bands. Years apart for different reasons. 1st was my first band of teenagers who were going to be famous rock stars. I was the eldest, did the driving, booked and signed for venues, subbed the band (who didn't have jobs) for recordings. Then they got their mate in to play bass when it looked like they'd got a deal. Only they hadn't and the band fell apart after that. Surprise surprise. 2nd was a function band. Put a lot of work on on websites, advertising, booking gigs. Seems no one actually wanted to gig. C'est la vie. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1481799386' post='3195200'] I'm not sure if Blue has this term? If not I'm sure he'll agree with it anyway, "never mix business with pleasure". [/quote] I think "Keep an eye on the business side of your pleasure." Fits better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1481799426' post='3195201'] I did it with two bands. Years apart for different reasons. [/quote] We live and learn... just need to get the hang of that second part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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