Dropzone Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Can anyone answer, why are strings different lenths ie, the risers at the bridge are not all in a straight line. Surely an octave is half the wavelength so why are they not all the same? Ta in advance Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The octave harmonic should always be at the half length of the string but once you fret the note the trigonometry alters slightly dependent upon the gauge and construction of the string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Slam dunk! I love science! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropzone Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 I did wonder if that was it but didn't think it would be that substantial. As a cheeky follow on, when checking / setting intonation, is it best to tune to open & 12th fret or is there some other voodoo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneknob Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 [quote name='Dropzone' timestamp='1447085539' post='2904690'] I did wonder if that was it but didn't think it would be that substantial. As a cheeky follow on, when checking / setting intonation, is it best to tune to open & 12th fret or is there some other voodoo? [/quote] The 12th fret harmonic and the note fretted at the 12th fret should be the same pitch. Fiddle with bridge settings and retune until they match, or you get bored of not really being able to hear the difference anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 [quote name='Dropzone' timestamp='1447083849' post='2904677'] Can anyone answer, why are strings different lenths ie, the risers at the bridge are not all in a straight line. Surely an octave is half the wavelength so why are they not all the same? Ta in advance Mike [/quote] Because the effective point of suspension of the string at the saddle differs from the actual point of suspension due to differences in the stiffness and thickness of the string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1447085520' post='2904688'] Slam dunk! I love science! [/quote] I love it when my half-educated guess is called science! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 An upright bass has no saddles for separate strings because your ear is going to sort it out anyway. A fretless bass guitar usually has individual saddles but strictly doesn't need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 [quote name='Dropzone' timestamp='1447085539' post='2904690'] ... As a cheeky follow on, when checking / setting intonation, is it best to tune to open & 12th fret or is there some other voodoo? [/quote] I just do open and 12th fret. Some people like to do 5th and 17th frets but I haven't got all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1447084440' post='2904682'] The octave harmonic should always be at the half length of the string but once you fret the note the trigonometry alters slightly dependent upon the gauge and construction of the string. [/quote] Also when you fret a note you are stretching the string, so it needs to be longer to compensate for the increase in pitch caused by this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropzone Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 I was thinking that, you could be there all day with every fret and then go back tot eh beginning again. Mind Blown!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1447087110' post='2904708'] I just do open and 12th fret. Some people like to do 5th and 17th frets but I haven't got all day. [/quote]surely if the open and 12th fret are right then if any of the others aren't it's a case of the frets not being right, as I've said before it really doesn't matter that much on a bass (unless you're playing chords) nobody's going to notice, I was once chatting to a double bass player and asking him how he managed without frets, his reply was "As long as you're somewhere near it doesn't really matter" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 "Close enough for Jazz"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1447087729' post='2904719'] surely if the open and 12th fret are right then if any of the others aren't it's a case of the frets not being right, as I've said before it really doesn't matter that much on a bass (unless you're playing chords) nobody's going to notice, I was once chatting to a double bass player and asking him how he managed without frets, his reply was "As long as you're somewhere near it doesn't really matter" [/quote] I agree but some people think the frets aren't right ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 [media]http://youtu.be/j2Yfee69bTk[/media] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Hmmm... I'll need to think about that for a while. Any idea where I can get a more detailed explanation of this system? (Not the original Werckmeister system - which I already have a bit of a handle on - but the version Feiten uses for the guitar; and in particular how it's been implemented.) I have some questions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Regarding compliance - I'm assuming it's due to the thickness/stiffness of the B string that it becomes difficult to achieve perfect intonation up at the dusty end - or maybe it's just my bass where it's a problem. I can generally get perfect intonation on all the other strings on my Curbow 5 past the 19th fret and beyond (and indeed on all my 4 string instruments too). Do taper wound strings improve this situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 [url="http://www.buzzfeiten.com/"]http://www.buzzfeiten.com/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luulox Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Is it because the headstock would look daft if the strings were all the same length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1447093311' post='2904813'] [url="http://www.buzzfeiten.com/"]http://www.buzzfeiten.com/[/url] [/quote] Ta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) The single biggest factor is the difference in thickness, all else being equal. As examples of how this can be made to matter less: 1) the strings of a classical guitar are all nearly the same thickness, so the bridge is essentially square across them. 2) If you've ever used contact-core strings on your bass, you'll have noticed (I hope...) that because the string is broken over the bridge much nearer to its centre, in terms of setting the intonation, all the strings are 'thinner' and the saddle adjustment across the bridge is more linear. Edit: my favourite strings were contact-core - Rotosound Superwound 505s. Contact-core pressurewounds with flats-like feel, rounds-like zing and truly massive sustain. On a BBOT. Edited November 9, 2015 by Telebass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damonjames Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I read online that a handy and accurate way to adjust the intonation is to use the open string and the 13th fret, that way your tuner doesn't get confused with which E/A/D/G it is trying to follow. Obviously the 13th should read a half step up from the open string! Seems to work for me, but anyone else tried this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 [quote name='Damonjames' timestamp='1447185146' post='2905683'] I read online that a handy and accurate way to adjust the intonation is to use the open string and the 13th fret, that way your tuner doesn't get confused with which E/A/D/G it is trying to follow. Obviously the 13th should read a half step up from the open string! Seems to work for me, but anyone else tried this? [/quote] That doesn't work because the position of every fret except the 12th is a compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 [quote name='Damonjames' timestamp='1447185146' post='2905683'] I read online that a handy and accurate way to adjust the intonation is to use the open string and the 13th fret, that way your tuner doesn't get confused with which E/A/D/G it is trying to follow. Obviously the 13th should read a half step up from the open string! Seems to work for me, but anyone else tried this? [/quote] Well, if one were going to do that it ought to be 1st and 13th frets but I don't see how it would be anything but less advantageous. My tuner doesn't get confused and if it did I'd replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1447187948' post='2905709'] ...every fret except the 12th... [/quote] I've heard talk of this sort of thing but don't hold with it, a bit like Nessie, ghosts and honest politicians. Every bass I play only has 5 frets, and one of those seems slightly extraneous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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