Ear plugs and hearing loss

[essexbasscat]

Now then

One of the joys of increasing age is, for many of us, the loss of ability to distinguish higher frequencies (along with the aching backs and creaking joints). Health related issues are just one of the contributing factors that can accelerate impairments to hearing abilities.

There's also the contributions from our occupations that lead to deterioration of hearing ability. In our case, the drummer, guitarist, shouting wife etc....

How is this taken into account when selecting ear defenders ?

For the sake of discussion; if your ability to hear higher frequencies is impaired, are those same higher frequencies more difficult to hear (compaired to the other sound on stage) if you wear ear defenders with a flatter frequency profile ?

Do you select the filters for your ear defenders that let more higher higher frequecies through ? if you do this. are you running the risk of further hearing loss of higher frequencies from the relatively decreased protection ? would this lead to an increase in tinnitus ?

So how do you select the correct filters for your ear plugs if you have hearing loss ?

Genuinely interested to hear (ahem) what people have to say about this

Over to you (pardon ?)

[Number6]

I must admit that i don't tend to look at the frequencies the earplugs filter as opposed to the db's. I use simple Proguard Lin-Ear 20s which seem to do the trick.

I have hearing loss and tinnitus in my right ear which isn't loud music related.

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1445162803' post='2889159']
I must admit that i don't tend to look at the frequencies the earplugs filter as opposed to the db's. I use simple Proguard Lin-Ear 20s which seem to do the trick.

I have hearing loss and tinnitus in my right ear which isn't loud music related.
[/quote]

Thanks No 6, hope you don't mind a question here. Assuming you use the same ear defenders for both sides, do you find it harder to hear the music properly with the right ear ? or do you use a different ear plug for the right ear to compensate ?

[colgraff]

I use ACS ER20s. I don't specifically use them to compensate for hearing loss, but as they lower volume across the frequency range then I feel that I am hear at least as much as I am when 'un-plugged'.

[Number6]

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1445163856' post='2889171']


Thanks No 6, hope you don't mind a question here. Assuming you use the same ear defenders for both sides, do you find it harder to hear the music properly with the right ear ? or do you use a different ear plug for the right ear to compensate ?
[/quote]

I try to stand with my right ear towards my bass amp and my good ear towards the monitors and guitar amp. Mainly as i know what i'm playing and what to expect sound wise and to keep up with any changes the guitar makes.

[chris_b]

If you've got to the point of considering ear plugs you're probably well into damaged hearing territory. If you want to keep playing in a loud environment then earplugs are your only solution.

It doesn't matter how much sound or tone you miss by wearing them, if you don't use plugs then what you will end up with is no definition at all in your (diminished) hearing.

Get moulded plugs with proper filters, I use ACS and my compromised hearing has remained pretty much stable for the last 8 years.

It doesn't matter what they sound like. It's a very easy choice, learn to love them or stop playing. This is as good as it gets and with anything less you'll be missing a significant part of your ability to hear before your much older.

[chris_b]

I don't get the good ear bad ear stuff.

If you played in a band for any length of time you've got a bad ear and a worse ear.

[Number6]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1445169075' post='2889219']
I don't get the good ear bad ear stuff.

If you played in a band for any length of time you've got a bad ear and a worse ear.
[/quote]

Agreed 👍

[PaulWarning]

I have this problem, my hearing loss is around the 4 - 6K Hz range for which I wear hearing aids, which obviously I can't use when I've got ear plugs in, when I'm playing I use an ACS pro 10 in the ear next to the drummer and an Alpine music safe in the other, if I use the ACR's in both ears the feeling of detachment form the music takes all the pleasure away and I haven't got a clue what people are saying to me, I did inquire about filters which would suite my hearing loss, when I had the moulds done for the ACS's but they only do about 4 different ones that cut the whole frequency range to varying degrees, so I'm afraid, as far as I know, there is no definitive answer when using ear defenders.
BTW my hearing loss is due to industrial damage not playing in a band

[TimR]

Elacin ER20s. About £10 from Amazon. Just reduce the volume across all frequencies. They don't let 'more' high frequency through. It's just that foam one let less high frequency through so compared with them they sound natural.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Go see a professional audiologist and get a hearing test in a sound proof booth with properly calibrated equipment.

I would recommend the expense of custom moulded plugs, I have some ACS ER26 which is the strongest removable filter, and normal conversation is quite possible when wearing them, they really do reduce the incoming volume enormously while retaining clarity and are much more comfortable to wear than generic foam or silicon mushroom plugs.

[Lo-E]

I'm very lucky that the bands I play in - thus far - don't play exceptionally loud. I've had very good luck with ER15s for years. I haven't found that the ER20s roll off too much high end, but that they simply roll off too much of everything. It's still relatively flat, but it sounds like it's in the next room. For that reason, I prefer the 15s.

Human hearing is a bit funny in that, as we suffer hearing loss, we lose sensitivity to certain frequencies when they are at lower volumes, but we become more sensitive to the same frequencies at higher volumes. For example, those of us who have mid-frequency hearing loss will have trouble hearing people who speak softly, but loud mid-frequency sounds such as guitar amps will be more painful to us that people without hearing loss.

For me, the 15s seem to balance things out in a way that enables me to hear vocals clearly without mids getting muddy the way they do with more attenuation. Everyone's ears, and degree of hearing damage, is different of course, so it probably pays to experiment.

[Lozz196]

I`ve found when using ear-plugs that all the top end seems to go, so I have then no reference point at which to aim my backing vox. Any suggestions on those that retain all the top end would be gratefully received as I do have trouble hearing softly spoken people etc.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1445185584' post='2889402']
I`ve found when using ear-plugs that all the top end seems to go, so I have then no reference point at which to aim my backing vox. Any suggestions on those that retain all the top end would be gratefully received as I do have trouble hearing softly spoken people etc.
[/quote]sounds like the problems I have, do you suffer from hearing loss?

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1445185584' post='2889402']
I`ve found when using ear-plugs that all the top end seems to go, so I have then no reference point at which to aim my backing vox. Any suggestions on those that retain all the top end would be gratefully received as I do have trouble hearing softly spoken people etc.
[/quote]

This is the problem I have. I'm very often involved in three/four part harmonies and the occasional lead vocal in the current band and earplugs can impair or occlude the upper mid or higher frequencies to a point that it's difficult to pitch correctly.

That's why I wonder if others have found a solution to hearing protection that allows those with impaired hearing of the upper register to listen the the upper mid or higher frequencies in a useful way.

[TrevorR]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1445168926' post='2889218']
If you've got to the point of considering ear plugs you're probably well into damaged hearing territory. If you want to keep playing in a loud environment then earplugs are your only solution.

It doesn't matter how much sound or tone you miss by wearing them, if you don't use plugs then what you will end up with is no definition at all in your (diminished) hearing.

Get moulded plugs with proper filters, I use ACS and my compromised hearing has remained pretty much stable for the last 8 years.

It doesn't matter what they sound like. It's a very easy choice, learn to love them or stop playing. This is as good as it gets and with anything less you'll be missing a significant part of your ability to hear before your much older.
[/quote]
[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1445169075' post='2889219']
I don't get the good ear bad ear stuff.

If you played in a band for any length of time you've got a bad ear and a worse ear.
[/quote]
[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1445174869' post='2889268']
Go see a professional audiologist and get a hearing test in a sound proof booth with properly calibrated equipment.

I would recommend the expense of custom moulded plugs, I have some ACS ER26 which is the strongest removable filter, and normal conversation is quite possible when wearing them, they really do reduce the incoming volume enormously while retaining clarity and are much more comfortable to wear than generic foam or silicon mushroom plugs.
[/quote]

I think that nails it for me. I've tried a wide range of plugs - cheap foam(pointless, not much money but still a waste of it). Etymotic, Docs Pro Plugs, Alpine Music Safe Pro. Of the aftermarket ones it was the Alpines which I stuck with for the longest and found the most useful. I liked the ability to change the attenuation level with different inserts.

However, when I got my UE in ears done I also got a set of plugs with swappable DBS filters. Really were a step above the aftermarket ones. Full range reduction but so much more usable/clearer than the cheaper ones.

As to the many complaints about feeling detached etc it seems to me that there is an element of perseverance involved to allow the wearing of plugs to become the norm. I see a lot of guys wear them for two songs and then pull one out. I'm convinced that if one keeps on doing that they will always feel really unnatural. As others have said. It's a choice - make it work, suffer even more serious hearing loss or stops playing altogether. When we change any other technique (changing picking style, thumb round vs thumb behind, finger style to slap whatever) we just have to work through the "but it feels awkward" phase until it feels more natural. I'm sure that the same sort of principle applies with plugs. It certainly did for me and now they just feel natural for me (just quieter).

And, hey, if I look a bit Mutt and Jeff and say, "Pardon?" a bit while wearing them in th e10 mins before a set (I always do this to give more pre-set acclimatisation time) it's a small price to pay to protect my hearing...

[TimR]

I'll confess to leaving the drum side one in while having the bass one out.

[TrevorR]

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1445190991' post='2889489']




As to the many complaints about feeling detached etc it seems to me that there is an element of perseverance involved to allow the wearing of plugs to become the norm... ...When we change any other technique (changing picking style, thumb round vs thumb behind, finger style to slap whatever) we just have to work through the "but it feels awkward" phase until it feels more natural. I'm sure that the same sort of principle applies with plugs. It certainly did for me and now they just feel natural for me (just quieter).


[/quote]

I'd be interested to know whether others who have preserved with plugs found that they adjusted over time and found the detachment to be less of an issue. That was my experience but I wonder how many others found the same.

[PaulWarning]

If you are thinking of going down ACS moulded ear plug route, in my experience the PRO 10's (they cut out the least noise) still cut out for more than the Alpine music safe ones even when they're pushed right into my ear, even with the pro 10 filters the effect is rather like listening to a band while in the smoking shelter outside the pub, but, like I've said before I already suffer from hearing loss but I suspect most of the ageing bass players on this forum do as well

[Skybone]

Tinnitus, check, both ears.

Been using Elacin (now ACS) ER20's for years for music, found them to be comfortable and effective. Tried some similar 3M ones, attenuation was OK, but didn't fit as well as the ER20's, and the "stem" was too short.

Used Howard Leight "Max" foam earplugs on the bike for years too (non-filtered, rated SNR 37), but then found some moulded "Christmas Tree" ones at SNR 35 by 3M, which don't need to be moulded before fitting, great for riding.

[Pinball]

Anyone suffer from ringing in the ears because I do? I was fine and wore ear plugs when we were playing loud. That was until a couple of months ago when I went to a a gig where I had to walk past the stacks to get to the loos. When I was passing the singer screamed, which physically hurt my ears. Since then I get ringing in my ears after playing or attending gigs even at moderate volumes.

I'm thinking of going to the doctor...is there any point or will it settle down?

[TrevorR]

If it's not cleared up in a couple of months then getting it checked out is definitely a good idea.

[Pinball]

It does settle down but every time I practise or go to a gig my ears ring for hours.

[leroydiamond]

Used generic plugs for years and was happy in the belief that I was protecting my hearing. However the onset of tinnitus and a visit to an audiologist proved that I had been fooling myself.

Ear canal dimensiond vary from person to person and ear to ear, so if one is seious about hearing protection, the custom plug route is the way to go IME. If not, then the cheap and cheerful 'christmas trees' etc are an alternative, but not a safe one IME


I use custom ACS plugs now and they have kept me in the game. Very comfortable and effective and are the best 'gear' investment I have made. I only wish I had invested in them before my hearing difficulties materialised and feel a bit cheeted by the cheaper alrernative, but have only myself to blame.

Edited October 19, 2015 by leroydiamond

[chris_b]

[quote name='leroydiamond' timestamp='1445237902' post='2889728']I only wish I had invested in them before my hearing difficulties materialised
[/quote]

I'm in the same boat.

And that's the main point. . . . you don't get insurance [i]after[/i] your house has burnt down, so the sensible thing is to start using them when you don't have a problem.