Aguilar TH500 distortion issues...

[stevie]

Here's a nice video of the Tonehammer by our own (I assume) Walbassist. Anybody hear distortion or lack of clarity?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3YUkuERh-I

[Conan]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1427389217' post='2729818']
Here's a nice video of the Tonehammer by our own (I assume) Walbassist. Anybody hear distortion or lack of clarity?
[/quote]

OK.... er, what's your point? It's fairly clear that very few other users have noticed what I have noticed, but it would appear to be a problem caused mainly by my use of the Barefaced Big One cabinet.

Also, as we all know, video tests are largely useless as it is more of a test of the speakers that we listen to the video through...

Edited March 27, 2015 by Conan

[Chienmortbb]

There is a strange sound on that recording. It sounds like an artefact of some kind and seems to follow each note. The basic tone of the amp sounds cleanish but it is hard to be objective with the after note noise. Headphones used - AKG K450 fed from IPhone 3G*, and Kindle Fire HD.
One further point. The TH500 uses an ice power 250asx2 power amp. It is capable of 500W into 4 or 8 ohms depending how Aguilar have configured it. There are two power amps and if connected as two Single Ended amps (rather than a bridged amp) one feeding each speaker socket, the max power into 8 ohms from each outlet would be 125W. Not perhaps the power house you would expect if pushing for volume.

*Has the best Analogue to Digital converter so the best phone for audio.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Chienmortbb

[stevie]

Yes, your right. I've had another listen and there's something happening at a high frequency. It doesn't follow the notes precisely, however; it sort of comes and goes with a slightly varying delay. It's the kind of swishy noise I'd associate with the recording/encoding. Perhaps not so conclusive after all then.
The artefacts seem to be on the right channel only.

Edited March 27, 2015 by stevie

[Chienmortbb]

That was my feeling StevIe, that there was an encoding problem.

[barkin]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1427453632' post='2730507']
There is a strange sound on that recording. It sounds like an artefact of some kind and seems to follow each note. The basic tone of the amp sounds cleanish but it is hard to be objective with the after note noise.
[/quote]

Yeah, I noticed that too.

[franzbassist]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1427453632' post='2730507']
There is a strange sound on that recording. It sounds like an artefact of some kind and seems to follow each note. The basic tone of the amp sounds cleanish but it is hard to be objective with the after note noise.
[/quote]

I think that's the Zoom recorder vibrating on its tripod stand, it's definitely not the amp or the cab.

Edited March 27, 2015 by walbassist

[Conan]

[quote name='Matt P' timestamp='1427364643' post='2729305']
as the owner of the F1 that will be up for test I'm interested in hearing the difference that the strings will make, all of my basses have flatwounds so I'm hoping that the flats+th500+midgets will sound the way I remember,
[/quote]

Well, after friday evening's test/microbash the results seem pretty clear...

There was distortion from the TH500 through the midget as well as the Big One - with my Jazz (roundwounds) and Matt's Letts fiver (flats). Matt has a much lighter playing style than I do, and even then the break-up was apparent.

The F1 sounds clear and clean through both cabs.

So it would appear that my TH500 has a slight fault. Probably caused during shipping when I traded it

Oh well, no use whinging about it - I need to get it tested and fixed! Once it is working properly and I get a chance to see what it is really capable of, I might even be convinced that it is worth keeping!

[Roland Rock]

I had an amp arrive with a fault last week. I suggested to the seller that we split the cost, but he said that he had sold it as working so insisted on paying the full amount. I hope your seller is as noble!

Edited March 30, 2015 by Roland Rock

[Conan]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1427699182' post='2733052']
I had an amp arrive with a fault last week. I suggested to the seller that we split the cost, but he said that he had sold it as working so insisted on paying the full amount. I hope your seller is as noble!
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure that the seller (trader, actually as no cash changed hands!) is fair, responsible and "noble" (in fact he has already offered to take the amp back and get it fixed under [b][i]his[/i][/b] warranty) - so I assume that the damage (if there is any - that is by no means certain) was caused during shipping.

Hopefully a service will reveal the nature (or presence) of a fault and remedy it Then I will (almost certainly) be selling this amp and looking for something else. I have my eye on a couple already...

Edited April 1, 2015 by Conan

[Roland Rock]

Glad to hear it. Look forward to seeing what you end up with

[Conan]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1427883176' post='2735329']
Glad to hear it. Look forward to seeing what you end up with
[/quote]

Me too!! On the current short list (based on availability and price) are an Ashdown JJB 500 and a Fender 800 Pro. Both amps are unfamiliar to me, but I used Trace Elliot for years, so the graphic on the Ashdown had me all nostalgic! The Fender offers more power and probably a cleaner sound...

[franzbassist]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1427888264' post='2735441']
Me too!! On the current short list (based on availability and price) are an Ashdown JJB 500 and a Fender 800 Pro. Both amps are unfamiliar to me, but I used Trace Elliot for years, so the graphic on the Ashdown had me all nostalgic! The Fender offers more power and probably a cleaner sound...
[/quote]

Don't know about the 800 Pro, but I had a JJB500 for a while and it provides a very clean tone.

[Conan]

Just to further complicate things... I used the TH500 again at last night's rehearsal and it was sounding brilliant!! Full, warm and rich and just sitting perfectly in our band mix! Still that "edge" to the sound (that I tend to think of as "distortion") but maybe that's just part of the character.

Tone controls all set flat (except for the treble which was at around 2 o'clock) and drive fully off. Boosting mids or bass at all causes the clip light to come on...

Maybe I just needed more time to get used to this amp, I dunno. Anyway, it's off for its service this weekend so maybe we'll get to the bottom of whether it has a fault or not!

Edited April 2, 2015 by Conan

[Highfox]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1427956611' post='2736181']
Just to further complicate things... I used the TH500 again at last night's rehearsal and it was sounding brilliant!! Full, warm and rich and just sitting perfectly in our band mix! Still that "edge" to the sound (that I tend to think of as "distortion") but maybe that's just part of the character.

Tone controls all set flat (except for the treble which was at around 2 o'clock) and drive fully off. Boosting mids or bass at all causes the clip light to come on...

Maybe I just needed more time to get used to this amp, I dunno. Anyway, it's off for its service this weekend so maybe we'll get to the bottom of whether it has a fault or not!
[/quote]

I can push mine a good bit before any clipping starts, even with an active bass. Even at silly volumes at 4 ohms and a 212.
Once it's been looked at you'll know where you stand with it. These are pretty versatile amps imo.

[Lozz196]

Yes I play with drive on full, gain at midday and I`ve never got the clipping light to come on. I think there`s something not right there, so great it`s getting a service.

[Mudpup]

I believe its ok for the clip light to be on in general. It doesn't mean you're clipping the Poweramp.
There's a few threads on that dodgy American site about it.

[Conan]

[quote name='Mudpup' timestamp='1427960651' post='2736234']
There's a few threads on that dodgy American site about it.
[/quote]

I don't go there...

[Mudpup]

You should....its loads of fun
Its even more confusing and opinionated than this one☺

[Conan]

[quote name='Mudpup' timestamp='1427961208' post='2736241']
You should....Its even more confusing and opinionated than this one☺
[/quote]

I know. That's why I don't go there...

[Jazzjames]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1427453632' post='2730507']
There is a strange sound on that recording. It sounds like an artefact of some kind and seems to follow each note. The basic tone of the amp sounds cleanish but it is hard to be objective with the after note noise. Headphones used - AKG K450 fed from IPhone 3G*, and Kindle Fire HD.
One further point. The TH500 uses an ice power 250asx2 power amp. It is capable of 500W into 4 or 8 ohms depending how Aguilar have configured it. There are two power amps and if connected as two Single Ended amps (rather than a bridged amp) one feeding each speaker socket, the max power into 8 ohms from each outlet would be 125W. Not perhaps the power house you would expect if pushing for volume.

*Has the best Analogue to Digital converter so the best phone for audio.
[/quote]

Are you sure about this? In the user manual it states 250w at 8ohms and 500w at 4ohms. It shouldnt matter whether I use 1 speakon out from the amp or two...? With 2 8ohm cabs obviously.

Conan, I hope you get to the bottom of your problem. I really like my th500. It doesnt sound amazing on its own but, as you said, works well in a mix.

[Conan]

[quote name='Jazzjames' timestamp='1427971796' post='2736427']
Conan, I hope you get to the bottom of your problem. I really like my th500. It doesnt sound amazing on its own but, as you said, works well in a mix.
[/quote]

[Conan]

Well, I got my TH500 back from the people who serviced and tested it yesterday, and the news is..... mixed

They gave the amp a clean bill of health - which is not what I was expecting, but confirms what I feared. This amp just does not work (for me) with my Barefaced Big One! When I use the caveat "for me", what I mean is that I like a clean tone and there just doesn't seem to be any way that I can get it from this combination.

One piece of advice I was given by the servicing company ([url="http://www.mac-electronics.co.uk/pro_audio/service.shtml"]MAC Electronics[/url] - who are well respected locally and actually have an Aguilar service contract) was to run my bass through the effects return socket! I've never heard of that before...

I tried it again at last night's rehearsal and things were just the same (unsurprisingly, as nothing has changed). I ran both volume and drive on ZERO and all tone settings flat. Master was on FULL. I had a usable volume, and a decent tone, but there was still a slight "edge" to the sound and if I added any boost to the tone controls then the clip light was on and the old distortion problem returned

So now that I know that the amp is not faulty, and was not damaged in shipping, I am left with the conclusion that it is simply no good for me as long as I use a Barefaced Big One.

So the choice is this - do I keep the amp and look for another cab (or cabs) or do I stick with a cabinet that offers me everything I want and sell/trade the Aggie?

At the moment I favour the latter, but which other amps will cause incompatibility problems with my cab I wonder?

Edited April 23, 2015 by Conan

[Lozz196]

In your position Conan I`d keep the Barefaced cab and look for the right amp. It`s a shame, the TH500 is a great amp but ultra-cleans aren`t really its game. I suppose that`s the - is it really downside - of having such a good cab that puts out everything that goes in. You get to hear what isn`t wanted as well as what is.

[JamesBass]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1429771526' post='2754662']
Well, I got my TH500 back from the people who serviced and tested it yesterday, and the news is..... mixed

They gave the amp a clean bill of health - which is not what I was expecting, but confirms what I feared. This amp just does not work (for me) with my Barefaced Big One! When I use the caveat "for me", what I mean is that I like a clean tone and there just doesn't seem to be any way that I can get it from this combination.

One piece of advice I was given by the servicing company ([url="http://www.mac-electronics.co.uk/pro_audio/service.shtml"]MAC Electronics[/url] - who are well respected locally and actually have an Aguilar service contract) was to run my bass through the effects return socket! I've never heard of that before...

I tried it again at last night's rehearsal and things were just the same (unsurprisingly, as nothing has changed). I ran both volume and drive on ZERO and all tone settings flat. Master was on FULL. I had a usable volume, and a decent tone, but there was still a slight "edge" to the sound and if I added any boost to the tone controls then the clip light was on and the old distortion problem returned

So now that I know that the amp is not faulty, and was not damaged in shipping, I am left with the conclusion that it is simply no good for me as long as I use a Barefaced Big One.

So the choice is this - do I keep the amp and look for another cab (or cabs) or do I stick with a cabinet that offers me everything I want and sell/trade the Aggie?

At the moment I favour the latter, but which other amps will cause incompatibility problems with my cab I wonder?
[/quote]
Interesting to hear Conan. Last week Captain Rumble and I met up to potentially trade my CTM300 for his TH500. Both heads were played through his Barefaced 212, can't remember the exact model name, but really surprisingly the TH500 was darker in character and seemed to have more lows/or less of everything else compared to the CTM300. The CTM was obviously louder and more present, but it did seem to lack bottom, something I'd never encountered with it before. The TH500 tone certainly isn't modern or super clean by any stretch of the imagination. It's very old school, and very warm and I can see how some people might think it's clipping or just not right for them as the bass frequencies are VERY pronounced!

Have you got any amps in mind Conan? I always thought the TC Electronic heads were ridiculously clean, same with Hartke, if thats any help!