Conan Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1431607112' post='2773102'] Just because I know how gear works doesn't mean I don't know how to use it. [/quote]Exactly! But the opposite can also apply... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1431607112' post='2773102'] The interpretation of what the two 'sides' stand for depends on which you're on. Those on the purely subjective side who deny the benefits of objectivity make the assumption that engineers wear white coats, work in laboratories, and wouldn't know an E string from a pickup. I don't own a white coat, and I don't have a laboratory. My work clothes are well imbedded with sawdust, as is my 'office'. [/quote] Sometimes you're such a patronising old fart. [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1431607112' post='2773102'] I don't know how long Alex has been a bassplayer, but I have been since 1965, and not immodestly would put my chops and ears up against [i]anyone[/i] elses. [/quote] Post the YouTube link then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I know who my money is on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1431628821' post='2773440'] I know who my money is on.... [/quote] This guy.... [url="https://youtu.be/vns8T-OQvC8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vns8T-OQvC8[/url] Edited May 14, 2015 by xgsjx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1431640139' post='2773624'] This guy.... [url="https://youtu.be/vns8T-OQvC8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vns8T-OQvC8[/url] [/quote] Surely he's at the wrong gig..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1431642928' post='2773657'] Surely he's at the wrong gig..? [/quote] But what size drivers is he playing through? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1431643284' post='2773663'] But what size drivers is he playing through? [/quote] They look quite small to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Can't watch it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1431713815' post='2774315'] Can't watch it.... [/quote] You'll need to watch it with the Mrs now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1431723532' post='2774466'] You'll need to watch it with the Mrs now. [/quote] No..she'll file that under 'some weird tw**' and she'll wonder what on earth I was looking at..?? So, yes..too weird..!! Edited May 16, 2015 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 The way I see it "elite" players are operating under an entirely different set of circumstances to the average amateur small/medium venue player. A top pro playing a concert/recording session/tv studio/whatever gig is going to be close miked and/or DIed with his gear running at tickover levels that only has to be good enough to get a decent sound to a mic a few inches away, he hears himself through monitors, the audience hear him through the desk where the sound has been massaged by an expert sound engineer using top grade signal processing gear. We amateurs on the other hand need our gear to operate at high SPLs, to have good projection and dispersion characteristics, and in most case be the sole source of the sound for our instrument for ourselves, our band mates and the audience. So thats why I value sound/tone/gear advise more from my fellow amateurs more than that from the pros, its why I buy I gear (specifically speakers) design by and for amateur players like me who face varied and demanding acoustic situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 That's a fair point. I've been lucky enought to hear some pro studio players playing live in small venues, and I have to say, some of them get a bass sound to die for from simple gear. We amateurs need a lot more help, which is probably why we spend money on our gear and fuss about it a lot more. We should be practicing instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1431874621' post='2775757'] The way I see it "elite" players are operating under an entirely different set of circumstances to the average amateur small/medium venue player. A top pro playing a concert/recording session/tv studio/whatever gig is going to be close miked and/or DIed with his gear running at tickover levels that only has to be good enough to get a decent sound to a mic a few inches away, he hears himself through monitors, the audience hear him through the desk where the sound has been massaged by an expert sound engineer using top grade signal processing gear. We amateurs on the other hand need our gear to operate at high SPLs, to have good projection and dispersion characteristics, and in most case be the sole source of the sound for our instrument for ourselves, our band mates and the audience. So thats why I value sound/tone/gear advise more from my fellow amateurs more than that from the pros, its why I buy I gear (specifically speakers) design by and for amateur players like me who face varied and demanding acoustic situations. [/quote] ok.............. but I think if you want to sound like the 'pro's' you have to adopt more of what they do, so the considerations they have to contend with, and spent years building on,.should become ours..?? And the other thing is that your fav bass player might have pretty much worked one theme all his career, so in that sense, they are a one trick pony. When you get to 1st call status at a top level, your 'thing' has become pretty much universally well regarded and people hire you be cause of that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1431875889' post='2775780'] but I think if you want to sound like the 'pro's' you have to adopt more of what they do, [/quote] Which I think in most cases would be "practice". I had a couple of top class musician acquaintances over the years and what marked them out was their obsessiveness about [b][i]playing the instrument [/i][/b]rather than on gear[b][i].[/i][/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1431951994' post='2776486'] Which I think in most cases would be "practice". I had a couple of top class musician acquaintances over the years and what marked them out was their obsessiveness about [b][i]playing the instrument [/i][/b]rather than on gear[b][i].[/i][/b] [/quote] In the earlier years, I'd agree, but they then also get access to the best ears around and because the ante is raised so much more, they become very attuned and educated in regards to sound. Either they do this... because they can and want to and are able to take it onboard, or they get to pay/work with the best who do it for them. Either way, it gets covered as they aren't much use without it. Nobody hires a bass player with a poor sound..or anyone else for that matter, IMO. Edited May 18, 2015 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vailbass Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1431874621' post='2775757'] The way I see it "elite" players are operating under an entirely different set of circumstances to the average amateur small/medium venue player. A top pro playing a concert/recording session/tv studio/whatever gig is going to be close miked and/or DIed with his gear running at tickover levels that only has to be good enough to get a decent sound to a mic a few inches away, he hears himself through monitors, the audience hear him through the desk where the sound has been massaged by an expert sound engineer using top grade signal processing gear. We amateurs on the other hand need our gear to operate at high SPLs, to have good projection and dispersion characteristics, and in most case be the sole source of the sound for our instrument for ourselves, our band mates and the audience. So thats why I value sound/tone/gear advise more from my fellow amateurs more than that from the pros, its why I buy I gear (specifically speakers) design by and for amateur players like me who face varied and demanding acoustic situations. [/quote] fair points all, but what you're ignoring is that, with rare exception, that pro you're talking about didn't start out on the big stage; he went through far more club/ bar/ basement gigs that you and has already done the legwork necessary to understand how to get a great sound for every size room you can think of at every volume level. He probably still plays in small rooms in his town when he's off the road and maintains up- to- date knowledge of all the new developments in amp- world. Do you really think that taking the advice of people struggling with figuring it out just like you over someone who conquered that hill long, long ago is the best way to achieve your goal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 [quote name='vailbass' timestamp='1432215505' post='2779282']... that pro you're talking about didn't start out on the big stage; he went through far more club/ bar/ basement gigs that you and has already done the legwork necessary to understand how to get a great sound for every size room you can think of at every volume level. He probably still plays in small rooms in his town when he's off the road and maintains up- to- date knowledge of all the new developments in amp- world. [/quote]Yes - there is that as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 [quote name='vailbass' timestamp='1432215505' post='2779282'] fair points all, but what you're ignoring is that, with rare exception, that pro you're talking about didn't start out on the big stage; he went through far more club/ bar/ basement gigs that you and has already done the legwork necessary to understand how to get [s]a[/s] [b]his[/b] great sound for every size room you can think of at every volume level. He probably still plays in small rooms in his town when he's off the road and maintains up- to- date knowledge of all the new developments in amp- world. Do you really think that taking the advice of people struggling with figuring it out just like you over someone who conquered that hill long, long ago is the best way to achieve your goal? [/quote] If one's goals are the same as his, this would work. It's not always the case, I'd dare to say. [i]My [/i]notion of a good sound could be (and probably is; I'm a drummer..! ) very different from his. That said, my own favourite cab is my Fender Bassman 2 x 15 with JBLs, so there..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vailbass Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1432228931' post='2779493'] If one's goals are the same as his, this would work. It's not always the case, I'd dare to say. [i]My [/i]notion of a good sound could be (and probably is; I'm a drummer..! ) very different from his. That said, my own favourite cab is my Fender Bassman 2 x 15 with JBLs, so there..! [/quote] if that's the case, you wouldn't pay any attention to anyone at all, which is another way to go but I was responding to someone who wrote that they would trust the ears, experience, perspective and judgement of a novice over a pro. The notion that a top pro lacks skills that a novice has is pretty silly, right? That's saying that the pro was never a novice and never had the experience of a novice; learning, experimenting; failing; succeeding, etc., etc., etc. That's the sort of thing that angry/ jealous/ resentful people say.....in order to feel better about what they percieve to be lacking in their own life and think they should/ could have achieved it but for some (usually lame) excuse...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vailbass Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1431607112' post='2773102'] The interpretation of what the two 'sides' stand for depends on which you're on. Those on the purely subjective side who deny the benefits of objectivity make the assumption that engineers wear white coats, work in laboratories, and wouldn't know an E string from a pickup. I don't own a white coat, and I don't have a laboratory. My work clothes are well imbedded with sawdust, as is my 'office'. I don't know how long Alex has been a bassplayer, but I have been since 1965, and not immodestly would put my chops and ears up against [i]anyone[/i] elses. Just because I know how gear works doesn't mean I don't know how to use it. [/quote] oh, this is gonna be great! Please, please Bill post some of your best bass playing clips; I can't wait!! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTypeV4 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Oh dear.. This is going downhill fast and haven't we strayed somewhat from the original topic? I personally have taken inspiritation and advice from a number of pro players over the years. Two in particular of which I have massive respect for often suffer the same stage blights we all encounter especially in difficult / reflective acoustic environments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 [quote name='vailbass' timestamp='1432246126' post='2779766'] oh, this is gonna be great! Please, please Bill post some of your best bass playing clips; I can't wait!! :-) [/quote] That comes across as a bit personal. Is there some history of conflict here? Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 [quote name='vailbass' timestamp='1432245797' post='2779762'] if that's the case, you wouldn't pay any attention to anyone at all, which is another way to go but I was responding to someone who wrote that they would trust the ears, experience, perspective and judgement of a novice over a pro. The notion that a top pro lacks skills that a novice has is pretty silly, right? That's saying that the pro was never a novice and never had the experience of a novice; learning, experimenting; failing; succeeding, etc., etc., etc. That's the sort of thing that angry/ jealous/ resentful people say.....in order to feel better about what they percieve to be lacking in their own life and think they should/ could have achieved it but for some (usually lame) excuse...... [/quote] It's worth noting that being a pro doesn't automatically make you better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) [quote name='charic' timestamp='1432279305' post='2779883'] It's worth noting that being a pro doesn't automatically make you better [/quote] Not in music maybe (where creativity and individuality are valued - unless you are a certain type of session player!) but in pretty much every other field, the pros are significantly better than the talented amateurs - which is why people are prepared to [b][i]pay[/i][/b] for their services! Edited May 22, 2015 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1431607112' post='2773102'] I ...not immodestly would put my chops and ears up against [i]anyone[/i] elses. [/quote] [quote name='vailbass' timestamp='1432246126' post='2779766'] oh, this is gonna be great! Please, please Bill post some of your best bass playing clips; I can't wait!! :-) [/quote] [quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1432252441' post='2779817'] That comes across as a bit personal. Is there some history of conflict here?[/quote]I think there certainly is now! To be fair, BFM's comment about being as good as "anybody" was a bit inflammatory given the present company... But this is turing into a bit of a willy-waving contest, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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