How much is a hit worth?

[oggiesnr]

Interesting article here looking at some of the financials behind a hit [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-27486952"]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-27486952[/url] .

It does raise the question as to just how you make money making music.

Steve

[flyfisher]

Very interesting article. Anyone know any rich Russians with an upcoming birthday?

[Dad3353]

The packaging for a CD cost the materials and time taken to make and distribute them; that's what they're worth. The cost of a downloaded song is the server hardware cost of acquisition and upkeep, and the broadband availability cost. That's what it's worth. A song created by an artist costs the time and expenses of its creation. That's what it's worth. The renewed performance of that song by the creator costs the time and expenses of that performance. That's what it's worth.
The recent notion of gaining income from one's notoriety is a virtual bubble with no basis except some early precedents which are then taken as 'normal'. That time is basically over, and this distortion of financial reality has run its course. The pendulum is moving back to its rightful position, and the unsustainable excesses of modern times will become mere legend, memories of old folks mumbling into their soup. 'Hits' are worth no more and no less than 'flops'. It takes just as much to create one as the other. It's the creation one should be paid for, not the popularity of the creation.
Is it really necessary that I add 'imho'..?

[JTUK]

It has long been accepted that tours make the money these days..
but even then, even names with a good few hits can pay peanuts to
the band...and apart from the kudos of playing with so and so,
some of those guys are chasing average function money quite hard.

[spacey]

Lilly allen did herself no favours by taking out injunctions on photographers that basically criminlised anyone photographing her, be it at a gig, on the street, at a promotion event, hence her face vanished from the media and her sales with it.

Edited May 25, 2014 by spacey

[TheGreek]

Very interesting article - explains why there are a lot of skint former "stars"

Also interesting is that "skint" isn't liked by spell checker..

[Diablo]

I believe the cost of a hit varies with the geographical location and the intended target. As low as £100 in South America perhaps, but into tens of thousands for a European capital dweller.

[JamesBass]

[quote name='Diablo' timestamp='1401056793' post='2459702']
I believe the cost of a hit varies with the geographical location and the intended target. As low as £100 in South America perhaps, but into tens of thousands for a European capital dweller.
[/quote]
You say it varies geographically, but I think you have generalised there a tad. I have a friend who's band were signed and fairly well known during the 90s and he regularly receives cheques each month of £5k or more and he reckons 85% comes from SA sales, his band here are much more cult-niché and experience less in sales.

The article however, is very interesting but sadly lacking in concrete facts in terms of actual figures, though the explanation of the industry was spot on and shows people just how hard it is as a musician.

I can also confirm that Amy Winehouse's band used to get paid a pittance per night, roughly £250-£500 each, if they were lucky that is. I know of pub bands who play her songs that get paid more than that each. Fairly ironic isn't really.

[oggiesnr]

[quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1401061888' post='2459740']

You say it varies geographically, but I think you have generalised there a tad. I have a friend who's band were signed and fairly well known during the 90s and he regularly receives cheques each month of £5k or more and he reckons 85% comes from SA sales, his band here are much more cult-niché and experience less in sales.

[/quote]

Is your friend getting money from sales or from writing credits from radio plays? Makes a huge difference if it's actually your words and music.

Steve

[FinnDave]

[quote name='Diablo' timestamp='1401056793' post='2459702']
I believe the cost of a hit varies with the geographical location and the intended target. As low as £100 in South America perhaps, but into tens of thousands for a European capital dweller.
[/quote]

I suspect the influx of suitably skilled eastern Europeans is driving down the cost in Europe

[FinnDave]

[quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1401061888' post='2459740']
You say it varies geographically, but I think you have generalised there a tad.

[/quote]

Ah, a perfect example of grabbing the wrong end of the stick and proceeding to beat about the bush with it!

[Diablo]

I guess my play on the word "hit" was lost then The thread title said something completely different to me.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='Diablo' timestamp='1401088964' post='2459811']
I guess my play on the word "hit" was lost then
[/quote]

... which seems strange considering that musicians are statistically overrepresented - both as victims and as the ones paying.
So .... is BC really a collection of non-musicians? Twould explain a lot...

[arthurhenry]

I'd call £250-£500 per night very good money for playing music.

[JamesBass]

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1401086455' post='2459791']
Is your friend getting money from sales or from writing credits from radio plays? Makes a huge difference if it's actually your words and music.

Steve
[/quote]
Performance credits. He's a session drummer, though I know he's produced one or two of the bigger numbers, which obviously boosts his pay!

[flyfisher]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1401088943' post='2459810']
Ah, a perfect example of grabbing the wrong end of the stick and proceeding to beat about the bush with it!
[/quote]

I was going to make a similar point, as Diablo was referring to the cost of a 'hit' rather than the 'worth' as mentioned by the OP

[FinnDave]

[quote name='Diablo' timestamp='1401088964' post='2459811']
I guess my play on the word "hit" was lost then The thread title said something completely different to me.
[/quote]

Some of us were in the same key as you, most didn't spot the change though.

[bassace]

I suppose it's very much down to whether the composition has legs. I wonder how much Alan Hawkshaw gets from the Countdown jingle.

[Turk]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]A[/size][/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4] 'pub' band getting more than £250 to £500 a night...each !?! [/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color]

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1401061888' post='2459740']
I can also confirm that Amy Winehouse's band used to get paid a pittance per night, roughly £250-£500 each, if they were lucky that is. I know of pub bands who play her songs that get paid more than that each.
[/quote]
Which pubs are those?

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1401257999' post='2461633']
Which pubs are those?
[/quote]

names and phone numbers please!

[BigRedX]

The real money is (as it's always been) in writing and publishing.

If you spend most of your time performing songs that weren't (at least co-) written by you, expect to be disappointed by the returns.

Edited May 28, 2014 by BigRedX

[Lw.]

It's an interesting article, I find it hard to believe the 8k figure though; she'll have been paid a performance/contracting fee for doing the work from which she'll have got half less management/lawyer fees. I obviously don't know her fee but I know what other artists of her size have had and it'd work out at way more than 8k and that's before royalties (which is what the article seemed to be focusing on).

The subject as a whole; one hit won't make an artist much, especially if it's from their first/only album as their sales royalties will go to recoupment. From what I remember it takes an artist about 3 decent albums to become recouped and so start earning money from sales but in all honesty; even out of the really famous groups - most won't have made much money. The whole thing gets a bit depressing if you only look at the financial side - it's good everyone is into it for the artistic merit instead ;-)

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Lw.' timestamp='1401293354' post='2462155']
It's an interesting article, I find it hard to believe the 8k figure though; she'll have been paid a performance/contracting fee for doing the work from which she'll have got half less management/lawyer fees. I obviously don't know her fee but I know what other artists of her size have had and it'd work out at way more than 8k and that's before royalties (which is what the article seemed to be focusing on).

The subject as a whole; one hit won't make an artist much, especially if it's from their first/only album as their sales royalties will go to recoupment. From what I remember it takes an artist about 3 decent albums to become recouped and so start earning money from sales but in all honesty; even out of the really famous groups - most won't have made much money. The whole thing gets a bit depressing if you only look at the financial side - it's good everyone is into it for the artistic merit instead ;-)
[/quote]

She didn't write the song which is where most of the money is in repeat performances. Her only royalties could come as a performer and depending on the contract she signed in order to do this song for the advert, they may be minimal or even non-existent.

[Lw.]

I know about the writing & royalties (I'm a royalties accountant) - the fee I'm talking about is what some labels call artist partnerships, though some just leave it to the management to sort; artist partnerships are mostly treated like sync fees (ie 50/50 label/artist) and they're of a decent size (completely separate to any royalties that may be applicable). I know that John Lewis pay them too as they've been churning out these same adverts ever year for a while now.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Lw.