Revisit R**********r sales on BC?

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1397500254' post='2424560']
Yes, but would you be willing to be [b][i]the[/i][/b] one, because you consider it to be so easy, to carry the can IF JH carried out his threats of legal action against BC if your self-confidence is mis-placed and you - as sole responsibility - do let a rogue copy appear on here.


Simple, you (or the others who want the facility but none of the responsibility) are so confident of your own knowledge that you in effect sign a blank cheque for BC to defend any action JH might bring, should you be wrong and let a bootleg Rick appear in "for sale".


No-one has said he would - but he would take action in the above two scenarios, you don't think he would - you could well be wrong.


Lucky you! You nearly talked yourself into a very precarious legal position there.
[/quote]

All I've said is that I'm confident in my ability to tell a Faker from a real one, it's not misplaced self-confidence but knowledge based on years of near-obsessive interest & study! What's so hard to accept about that? I'd invite you to go & find a single example of a Rick - or copy - where there is any real ambiguity over which it is. Trust me, it'll take you a while.

Interesting you mention the JBs - they were about the least "authentic" of the vintage copies, superb instruments but really only cosmetically resembling a Rick. To a greater or lesser extent, that's true of all copies, the point being that they were/are [i]copies[/i], not counterfeits, none of the manufacturers were interested in copying every last detail & idiosyncracy of the real thing. Like I said, if you know what to look for, it's very easy indeed.

This site's of interest - to me mainly because it shows various uncommon vintage copies, which is my area of interest - but is certainly helpful in clarifying what's real & what's not:

[url="http://www.joeysbassnotes.com/Fakericks.htm"]http://www.joeysbass...m/Fakericks.htm[/url]

J.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397501589' post='2424583']
All I've said is that I'm confident in my ability to tell a Faker from a real one, it's not misplaced self-confidence but knowledge based on years of near-obsessive interest & study! What's so hard to accept about that?[/quote] Nothing whatsoever - only your reluctance to say something to the effect that [i]"Yes I'm such an expert & I've got so much spare time in my life that I will monitor every single Rick or alleged Rick that is offered for sale on BC, decide on their validity - and personally finance any legal action that may arise from my offer"[/i].
After all - by wanting BC to open the door again it's what you're expecting of them.
It's a straight question - are you up for it?

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397501589' post='2424583']Interesting you mention the JBs - they were about the least "authentic" of the vintage copies, superb instruments but really only cosmetically resembling a Rick.[/quote]
He never intended them to be - and guess what the JB Company is still making and selling them.

[Johngh]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1397494419' post='2424482']
Much of this debate has been about BC justifying its position. Let's try the shoe on the other foot.

Anyone who wants to buy and sell a Ric can easily do so using other forums. The trade in Rics proceeds unhindered. No one is remotely disadvantaged and it's not even much of an inconvenience.

So why should BC should consider changing its position?
[/quote]


This

BC is not the problem. It's JH that's the problem. JH will say it's not him but the company's that rip off his products that's the problem.


So round and round we go...............again.

I sold my 4003 on Gumtree with very little hassle, just a pity I couldn't sell it on here, but hey ho.

[3below]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397499563' post='2424547']
And again I'll ask - why on Earth would Hall take action over the sale of a genuine used Rickenbacker?
[/quote]

As suggested earlier, this tactic would help sales on new ones - in the short term. Would be a strange way to operate though.

[geofio]

Big Stu, for your info sir i am no way a JH fanboy.pisses me off when folk start this fanboy stuff i play ric basses end of pal.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='geofio' timestamp='1397505384' post='2424650']
Big Stu, for your info sir i am no way a JH fanboy.pisses me off when folk start this fanboy stuff i play ric basses end of pal.
[/quote]

You still didn't answer the question either.

[Beedster]

I must admit that having initially been in favour of dropping the ban - or at least of seeking a means of doing so with JH - on the basis of a few discussion and this thread I'm pretty much convinced of the logic of keeping it. As has been said, we can buy and sell Rics elsewhere from sites that are far better resourced in terms of cash and legal people on the payroll should things get messy with JH. It's absolutely right that the owners of BC should not risk the sort of crap that could ensue from legal action from Ric, great shame though it is that the threat in question hangs over them.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397498062' post='2424527']
They're not "brave words" - it's a simple fact. Hall wouldn't sue because selling a legitimate Rickenbacker is 100% legal in every way. The man might like to bluff and bluster but that doesn't make him an idiot.
[/quote]

Here's a simple fact. Nigel Evans MP was recently found to be innocent of the legal charges brought against him, so what has he got to worry about? Well, apart from all the time, stress and a £130,000 bill for legal costs in fighting his corner.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27018264

The point is that even though it might be 100% legal to sell a genuine Rickenbacker and that any legal action would almost certainly fail, it doesn't mean that you can be certain about how someone else will react and it doesn't mean you can be sure of not being drawn into an expensive and time-consuming defence of your actions.

Some things might be worth that risk - I'd suggest that a used bass guitar is not one of them.

[wateroftyne]

It's been mentioned a million times before, but: A spiteful person with a bee in their bonnet and lots of money to burn can make your life a misery fairly easily, regardless of who's in the right.

[mentalextra]

If someone was 'given' the responsibility of legitimising any ricks put on sale, how much would they have to charge for their professional services? Perhaps we could call it the "BassChat added value authenticity certificate". It would get the 'once over' from the experts and a certificate of authenticity could be given; there are templates in Corel draw

Edited April 14, 2014 by mentalextra

[Marvin]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1397509911' post='2424722']
If someone was 'given' the responsibility of legitimising any ricks put on sale, how much would they have to charge for their professional services? Perhaps we could call it the "BassChat added value authenticity certificate". It would get the 'once over' from the experts and a certificate of authenticity could be given; there are templates in Corel draw
[/quote]

What happens when a certain person doesn't believe the certificate of authenticity isn't worth the 'paper' it's written on and starts firing off legal warnings?


It's not about what 'we' think, but the actions and reactions of a 3rd party. Could we guarantee that a certain someone wouldn't say 'those certificates are a scam etc etc' ?

[karlfer]

Wish I'd kept me big gob shut.

[mentalextra]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1397510529' post='2424731']
What happens when a certain person doesn't believe the certificate of authenticity isn't worth the 'paper' it's written on and starts firing off legal warnings?


It's not about what 'we' think, but the actions and reactions of a 3rd party. Could we guarantee that a certain someone wouldn't say 'those certificates are a scam etc etc' ?
[/quote]

I was being ironic...

[RhysP]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397499563' post='2424547']
I've always had GAS for an early 70s checked bound/full-width inlays/toaster/wavy Grovers 4001 in naturally darkened Fireglo ....
[/quote]

I had one exactly the same as that in the early 80's - it was a total pile of sh*t.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1397511239' post='2424746']
I had one exactly the same as that in the early 80's - it was a total pile of sh*t.
[/quote]
There you go - you should have bought a Kasuga copy - they're ace.

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1397502293' post='2424592']
Nothing whatsoever - only your reluctance to say something to the effect that [i]"Yes I'm such an expert & I've got so much spare time in my life that I will monitor every single Rick or alleged Rick that is offered for sale on BC, decide on their validity - and personally finance any legal action that may arise from my offer"[/i].
After all - by wanting BC to open the door again it's what you're expecting of them.
It's a straight question - are you up for it?[/quote]

The problem with your straight question, Mr Big_Stu, is that what you've done is dream up an entirely hypothetical & unrealistic scenario and then attempt to back me into a corner where I'm forced to agree to some random set of fantasy preconditions you've pulled out of thin air - or perhaps from somewhere darker, damper & more whiffy. Sorry mate, not playing.

I don't "want BC to open the door" - I've already expressly stated that I do not care. I have no vested interest and this is purely a hypothetical discussion because it's not going to happen anyway. On balance the current position is plainly the best/least scary for the owners & mods on BC, I'm only involved in this discussion because the ban on genuine Rick sales appears irrational, there is a simple solution to the problem of Fakers being sold, because they're easy to ID, and plenty of other places allow Rick sales and don't seem to get prosecuted by RIC.

Now someone please correct me if I'm wrong here, but as far as I can tell, many pre-owned items of an infinite variety of types get re-sold secondhand all around the world, and the original manufacturers of these items sue absolutely no-one, ever, over these sales. Much like Rickenbacker International Corp has sued no-one, ever, for re-selling an original Rickenbacker bass.

The more you think about this, the more downright loony the whole thing seems. If Hall's seen this thread, he must be absolutely p!ssing himself!

J.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397513960' post='2424779']The problem with your straight question, Mr Big_Stu, is that what you've done is dream up an entirely hypothetical & unrealistic scenario and then attempt to back me into a corner where I'm forced to agree to some random set of fantasy preconditions you've pulled out of thin air - or perhaps from somewhere darker, damper & more whiffy. Sorry mate, not playing. .[/quote]
Oh but you are "playing" - becauseyou then go on in the same reply to make exactly the same point (yet again) that you won't answer the question on...........

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397513960' post='2424779'] there is a simple solution to the problem of Fakers being sold, because they're easy to ID[/quote]
No "random scenario, or "fantasy preconditions" - Will YOU - set yourself up as THE person to decide what is or isn't a legit Rick and accept responsibility for BCs legal costs should JH decide he does want to sue???? It's a straight yes or no answer, which you should be able to manage if your premise on fakers is so concrete.
This is the only question asked - and no matter how long your answer is - you're avoiding answering it.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Big_Stu

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1397515358' post='2424810']Will YOU - set yourself up as THE person to decide what is or isn't a legit Rick and accept responsibility for BCs legal costs should JH decide he does want to sue????
[/quote]
You, and you alone, have decided that a single individual would have sole responsibility for every aspect of overseeing Rick sales on BC, including fighting and financing legal ripostes to an imaginary army of legal rottweilers. This is an entirely implausible hypthothetical invention of yours, and I don't understand the relevance of answering silly questions about daft fantasy scenarios, regardless of how often I'm bludgeoned with them.

Keep on asking, and you'll keep getting the same response, but if this is a game of "let's see who gets bored first", you won. Three hours ago. And if my failure to give the reply you desperately want to squeeze out of me makes you feel smug - well I'm happy to have brought a little pleasure (of a sort) into another person's life.

J.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397517071' post='2424823']
You, and you alone, have decided that a single individual would have sole responsibility for every aspect of overseeing Rick sales on BC, including fighting and financing legal ripostes to an imaginary army of legal rottweilers. This is an entirely implausible hypthothetical invention of yours, and I don't understand the relevance of answering silly questions about daft fantasy scenarios, regardless of how often I'm bludgeoned with them.[/quote]

I didn't say that at all - you win nothing by making up lies. You keep saying how easy it is, and how it should be do-able. You've had it explained several times why it's not a good idea but you still keep saying how easy it would be. It wasn't just you, there were others - but you're the one still saying it should be do-able, you said it again in your recent post.
So if you wouldn't step forward and say that yes you would be prepared to make that offer of responsibility - how do you expect any member(s) of the BC admin to do so?? Because keep making that point - is by consequence - making that assumption that they will.

[geofio]

we should end this here it isn't getting anywhere, apart from certain members trying to wind other members up. you can't buy or sell Rickenbacker Basses on Bass chat that is it no point dragging it on.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='geofio' timestamp='1397517752' post='2424829']we should end this here it isn't getting anywhere, apart from certain members trying to wind other members up. you can't buy or sell Rickenbacker Basses on Bass chat that is it no point dragging it on.[/quote]

the winding up started when the question was first asked (again) & "certain members" took the lead to chip in without wanting any part of the possible consequences.

[geofio]

This is what i am talking about any mods around to lock this thread it is getting tedious.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='geofio' timestamp='1397518338' post='2424835']it is getting tedious[/quote]
It's been tedious all along. members wanting rules changed in their favour but left out of any trouble should it arise - you being one of the main instigators.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397513960' post='2424779']
If Hall's seen this thread, he must be absolutely p!ssing himself!
[/quote]



[size=3][b]Hall The Merciless[/b]: I feel like raining some gloat down on the fools at BassChat. Prepare my dirigible for immediate departure.[/size]

[geofio]

Stu , you really are talking nonsense now. i couldn't care less to be very honest with you if rics were for sale on here or not . at least i have an interest in the instrument i am not just on here to wind folks up. i own and play Rickenbacker they are great instruments , i don't care what john hall says if i can sell my bass here or anywhere else, if i want to sell a ric i will sell it with no one's help. i just think it adds more interest to the for sale section if there were genuine rics for sale for other guys on the forum to buy them, i can get a hold of rics anytime i want. so it does not affect me personally for your information. cheers

[karlfer]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1397518731' post='2424839']
It's been tedious all along. members wanting rules changed in their favour but left out of any trouble should it arise - you being one of the main instigators.
[/quote]

If it's been tedious all along for you, why didn't you just go to another thread instead of staying on this one, trying to be Paxman?