chris_b Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The Jazz bass was apparently designed for guitarists but the Precision? I think the Precision was pitched at upright bass players. When the Precision was released Fender was producing instruments for the Hillbilly and Folk and Hawaiian bands that were popular at the time. The Precision was needed so that bass players in bands could be heard above the steel guitars etc who were amplified by then. If your upright bass was louder and the notes could actually be heard (which they mostly weren't before) you would need to be in tune. A concept that some (many?) upright bass players back then might struggle with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1392817839' post='2373038'] The Jazz bass was apparently designed for guitarists but the Precision? I think the Precision was pitched at upright bass players. [/quote] The book that's under my spare bed that I can't be arsed to dig out quotes Leo - or possibly Freddie Tavares (Memory fails me) - as saying one idea was a Precision could be easily played by guitarists and they could 'get a job more often'. No doubt , though , that a huge part of the Fender ethos was to produce instruments that could easily be amplified , esp.on the radio - so double bass players were certainly in mind. All this also stops the age old argument about the name of the instrument we play. It's a 'bass guitar' because it's a bass version of a guitar design. I think the Jazz was introduced to complement the Jazzmaster guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1392817839' post='2373038'] I think the Precision was pitched at upright bass players. When the Precision was released Fender was producing instruments for the Hillbilly and Folk and Hawaiian bands that were popular at the time. [/quote] The press releases and ads from the time suggest it was pitched at bass players and guitarists. The presence of frets was angled to be a great thing... a step into a brave new world of precise intonation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 [quote name='BassBod' timestamp='1392717018' post='2371828'] I remember reading years ago that Bill Wyman was using a de-fretted bass in the mid 60's - but I've never heard a Stones track from that time when you'd notice, it could be double bass, could be a hollow body? [/quote] Have a good listen to Jumpin' Jack Flash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyDog Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 [quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1392825518' post='2373168'] Have a good listen to Jumpin' Jack Flash. [/quote] Oh gawd, do I have to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) [quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1392829414' post='2373225'] Oh gawd, do I have to? [/quote] Oh go on............it's a gas gas gas dontcha know. Edited February 19, 2014 by BetaFunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 It may be that a fretless was played on the Jumping Jack Flash single but it was not Mr Wyman playing it. [size=2]Sympathy for the Devil? That was me, too[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merello Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Wiki The first fretless bass guitar was made by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Wyman"]Bill Wyman[/url] in 1961 when he converted an inexpensive Japanese fretted bass by removing the frets.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_bass_guitar#cite_note-19"][19][/url][/sup][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_bass_guitar#cite_note-20"][20][/url][/sup] The first production fretless bass was the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampeg"]Ampeg[/url] AUB-1 introduced in 1966, and Fender introduced a fretless Precision Bass in 1970. Around 1970, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Danko"]Rick Danko[/url] from [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Band"]The Band[/url] began to use an Ampeg fretless, which he modified with Fender pickups—as heard on the 1971 [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahoots_(album)"]Cahoots[/url][/i] studio album and the [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_of_Ages_(album)"]Rock of Ages[/url][/i] album [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_album"]recorded live[/url] in 1971.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_bass_guitar#cite_note-Bacon2010-21"][21][/url][/sup][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_bass_guitar#cite_note-22"][22][/url][/sup] Danko said, "It's a challenge to play fretless because you have to really use your ear."[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_bass_guitar#cite_note-23"][23][/url][/sup] In the early 1970s, fusion-jazz bassist [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaco_Pastorius"]Jaco Pastorius[/url] created his own fretless bass by removing the frets[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_bass_guitar#cite_note-24"][24][/url][/sup] from a Fender Jazz Bass, filling the holes with wood putty, and coating the fretboard with epoxy resin.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_bass_guitar#cite_note-25"][25][/url][/sup] Some fretless basses have "fret line" markers inlaid in the fingerboard as a guide, while others only use guide marks on the side of the neck. Tapewound (double bass type) and flatwound strings are sometimes used with the fretless bass so the metal string windings do not wear down the[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerboard"]fingerboard[/url]. Some fretless basses have epoxy coated fingerboards to increase the fingerboard's durability, enhance [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustain_(music)"]sustain[/url], and give a brighter tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 [quote name='merello' timestamp='1392844497' post='2373523'] Wiki The first fretless bass guitar was made by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Wyman"]Bill Wyman[/url] in 1961 when he converted an inexpensive Japanese fretted bass by removing the frets.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_bass_guitar#cite_note-19"][19][/url][/sup][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_bass_guitar#cite_note-20"][20][/url][/sup] The first production fretless bass was the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampeg"]Ampeg[/url] AUB-1 introduced in 1966, and Fender introduced a fretless Precision Bass in 1970. Around 1970, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Danko"]Rick Danko[/url] from [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Band"]The Band[/url] began to use an Ampeg fretless, which he modified with Fender pickups—as heard on the 1971 [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahoots_(album)"]Cahoots[/url][/i] studio album and the [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_of_Ages_(album)"]Rock of Ages[/url][/i] album [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_album"]recorded live[/url] in 1971.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_bass_guitar#cite_note-Bacon2010-21"][21][/url][/sup][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_bass_guitar#cite_note-22"][22][/url][/sup] Danko said, "It's a challenge to play fretless because you have to really use your ear."[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_bass_guitar#cite_note-23"][23][/url][/sup] In the early 1970s, fusion-jazz bassist [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaco_Pastorius"]Jaco Pastorius[/url] created his own fretless bass by removing the frets[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_bass_guitar#cite_note-24"][24][/url][/sup] from a Fender Jazz Bass, filling the holes with wood putty, and coating the fretboard with epoxy resin.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_bass_guitar#cite_note-25"][25][/url][/sup] Some fretless basses have "fret line" markers inlaid in the fingerboard as a guide, while others only use guide marks on the side of the neck. Tapewound (double bass type) and flatwound strings are sometimes used with the fretless bass so the metal string windings do not wear down the[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerboard"]fingerboard[/url]. Some fretless basses have epoxy coated fingerboards to increase the fingerboard's durability, enhance [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustain_(music)"]sustain[/url], and give a brighter tone. [/quote] I'm trying to work out what the point of this post is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1392847788' post='2373576'] I'm trying to work out what the point of this post is. [/quote] A thoughtful member trying to be helpful by providing us with useful background information from a source that would claim to be factual but whose reliability is often linked to the popular phrase 'taken with a pinch of salt' ?? I'm guessing ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1392847788' post='2373576'] I'm trying to work out what the point of this post is. [/quote] I found it quite an interesting, relevant and positive contribution to the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1392877727' post='2373691'] A thoughtful member trying to be helpful by providing us with useful background information from a source that would claim to be factual but whose reliability is often linked to the popular phrase 'taken with a pinch of salt' ?? I'm guessing ! [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1392879633' post='2373695'] I found it quite an interesting, relevant and positive contribution to the thread. [/quote] Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1392879633' post='2373695'] I found it quite an interesting, relevant and positive contribution to the thread. [/quote] I just thought that anyone contributing to this thread would have known all of that already. If it has informed some of the history of the fretless bass and they can contribute to the thread then that's a good thing and a positive contribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The reason why the precision bass was called the precision bass was because the frets made intonation more precise. Fender were moving away from fretless in the 50's and 60's, not towards it. Possibly because they wanted to tap the guitarist market, as has been suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1392839726' post='2373412'] It may be that a fretless was played on the Jumping Jack Flash single but it was not Mr Wyman playing it. [/quote] Issa Stones track from the late 60s played on a defretted bass as per spec. The actual perpetrator wasn't a requirement in the original terms of reference. That'll cost you extra, squier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1392903973' post='2373972'] Issa Stones track from the late 60s played on a defretted bass as per spec. The actual perpetrator wasn't a requirement in the original terms of reference. That'll cost you extra, squier. [/quote] Good point, well made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merello Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1392847788' post='2373576'] I'm trying to work out what the point of this post is. [/quote] Just background mate...just background. It relates to the fact that the greatest innovator in bass guitars had a blind spot. I copied and pasted it as I didn't want to appear all 'know-all-like" by putting it into my own words. Now - give me your 4th best team in Europe football top in 1967 as reparation! Edited February 20, 2014 by merello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='merello' timestamp='1392917724' post='2374204'] Just background mate...just background. It relates to the fact that [b]the greatest innovator in bass guitars had a blind spot.[/b] [/quote] Impossible, surely!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Not sure this counts as a blind spot! If anyone wanted to play without frets in the early days I imagine they'd prefer to get their double basses out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Leo designed it for convenience of use and increased volume hence smaller than the doghouse and easier to play hence tbe frets and amplified to satisfy band leaders etc....wasn't it? I suppose with a design brief like that fretless wouldn't get a look in? I do miss my old VMJF.... Edited February 20, 2014 by iconic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 And Fender still aren't too market savvy....or we have surf green options on everything:)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merello Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1392898459' post='2373890'] The reason why the precision bass was called the precision bass was because the frets made [b]intonation more precise[/b]. Fender were moving away from fretless in the 50's and 60's, not towards it. Possibly because they wanted to tap the guitarist market, as has been suggested. [/quote] Genuinely never knew that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I'm fairly sure I read somewhere that, due to delays in producing the first basses, Fender fitted a switchable (bigger) capacitor into Teles so they could be played with much less treble and sound more bassy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 [quote name='BassBod' timestamp='1392717018' post='2371828'] Jaco wouldn't have been Jaco without the two very new Acoustic 360 stacks [/quote] In an interview in 1984 Jaco said in the studio he went direct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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