Where would you say MOST of your sound comes from?

[paul h]

Tesco.

From the Tesco Value "Tone" range.

Paul H.

[Cantdosleepy]

Since Zimbabwe flared up I've started using Sainsbury's Basics. Fancy and that.

My (passive, flatwound, jazz) bass is in the shop at the moment, so I took my housemates (active, roundwound, humbucking) bass to practice. Fiddled for hours and couldn't get the sound I was looking for. On the other hand, I was using a Trace combo last week, and this week was using a sketchy-looking Carlsbro...

[johnnylager]

Here

[Tait]

lol i wasnt expecting this many replies! i only posted cos i was bored and had only a few minutes befoe realised that i don't remember last time i changed the EQ on my amp.

so you guys who are saying that the sound comes from the player... are you saying that if you don't like your tone you're screwed? and when people are saying there's nothing like a precision with a pick, its all in their head? or when they say musicman basses cut through the mix better? and you're trying to say its pointless spending a grand on a custom bass when you can pick one up for £50 off ebay and get the same tone?



i think not.

[ianrunci]

lol i wasnt expecting this many replies! i only posted cos i was bored and had only a few minutes befoe realised that i don't remember last time i changed the EQ on my amp.

so you guys who are saying that the sound comes from the player... are you saying that if you don't like your tone you're screwed?
[b]Not at all, the sound comes with exerience[/b]

and when people are saying there's nothing like a precision with a pick, its all in their head?
[b]No but thats also a different style as well as a different sound. a precission with a pick can usually be copied by a good player with another bass and a pick[/b]

or when they say musicman basses cut through the mix better? and you're trying to say its pointless spending a grand on a custom bass when you can pick one up for £50 off ebay and get the same tone?

[b]No because obviously the better the pick ups the easier it is to get a good sound and the better its made the easier it will be to play. Althoughthats not always the case, I have had cheap instruments that were everybit as easy to play as instruments 5 times the cost[/b]

i think not.

[teen t-shirt]

a very brutal fingerstyle...

which i can't seem to produce with a plectrum...

i use a pick for songs which need a quieter bass line... the fast hard rocking ones you'd expect to use a pick, nope i just can't do it doesn't sound right...

Edited July 1, 2008 by teen t-shirt

[ped]

[quote name='johnnylager' post='230592' date='Jul 1 2008, 02:57 PM']Here
[/quote]


What on earth is that!! If it had rocking chair style feet I think I would be after one! Superb. Would probably mod it a bit and add a headrest

[johnnylager]

[quote name='ped' post='230681' date='Jul 1 2008, 04:55 PM']What on earth is that!! If it had rocking chair style feet I think I would be after one! Superb. Would probably mod it a bit and add a headrest[/quote]
Me too. I'd spend more on it than it was worth, de-value it by doing so, then want something else.

Edited July 1, 2008 by johnnylager

[dangerboy]

Right arm
Plectrum
Strings
Pre-amp (the tronographic rusty box)
Bass

in that order.

Edited July 1, 2008 by dangerboy

[6stringbassist]

Why then do players like Mark King, Jonas Hellborg, John Entwistle, Matt Garrison and Michael Manring, to name just a few, spend years working with luthiers and amp manufacturers to perfect the instruments that they play, and the amplification that they use.

If you listen back to players, Mark King is a good example, listen to him live over the last 20 years or so, and you can hear his playing with his Jaydee, sounds different to his Status, which sounds different to his Alembic.
There's a great live album where he's he's playing his Alembic through an Eden rig, it sounds so different to his other recordings with other basses and amplification.

It makes a nonsense of all the time I spent talking to Martin Petersen, discribing how I wanted my bass to sound.

I've played many instruments over the last 20 years, I guess that makes me an experienced player, and they do all sound different, and more importantly they react differently to your playing, inspiring you to play differently in some cases.

Imagine Jaco without his trade mark Jazz sound, sure he would still be Jaco if he'd played some other bass, but his sound would have been different.

Pino in the 80's with his fretless Stingray, it wouldn't have been the same if he'd used say a fretless Wal instead.

You can have, like I've said before, an affect on your sound, playing closer to the bridge, adjusting the angle of attack on the string.

I play a lot of jazz, when I do so I play longer notes, and use rest strokes instead of the free strokes that I usually use, but most of the sound is coming from the bass, and amp, but I chose them to sound like they do, much as the players I mentioned earlier in this posting have done.

[ahpook]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='230815' date='Jul 1 2008, 07:37 PM']I've played many instruments over the last 20 years, I guess that makes me an experienced player, and they do all sound different, and more importantly they react differently to your playing, inspiring you to play differently in some cases.[/quote]

plus the one - i do play different basses in different ways.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='230815' date='Jul 1 2008, 07:37 PM']Why then do players like Mark King, Jonas Hellborg, John Entwistle, Matt Garrison and Michael Manring, to name just a few, spend years working with luthiers and amp manufacturers to perfect the instruments that they play, and the amplification that they use.[/quote]

Because it shifts their default tone to the centre of the tonal circle they wish to occupy, which is exactly what I have done with my gear. This does not mean this circle no longer overlaps with many other tonal circles (continuing the venn analogy).

Alex

[SteveK]

I am assuming that we are all talking about using a fairly decent standard of equipment - in good working order.

[b]*You will not get a 5 grand sound out of a £200 rig*[/b]

[quote]are you saying that if you don't like your tone you're screwed?[/quote]Not at all, but if you don't have, at least, a basic understanding of how to use:
Parametric and Graphic eq
Pre amp and Master volumes
Crossovers
High/low pass eq etc.
Then you stand little or no chance of getting "your tone" on another rig.

[quote]and when people are saying there's nothing like a precision with a pick, its all in their head?[/quote]A Precision with a pick sounds like a Precision with a pick.


[quote]musicman basses cut through the mix better?[/quote]I've heard plenty of non-Musicman basses "cut through the mix" just fine.


[quote]and you're trying to say its pointless spending a grand on a custom bass when you can pick one up for £50 off ebay and get the same tone?[/quote]I refer the right honourable gentleman to the second line of my post.

My last words on the subject:
As I said in an earlier post... Basses/amps/cabs all have their own characteristics, often in our own heads these characteristics are all-important, the reality is, that usually - unless you're using an "extreme sound" - they're not as important as we imagine.

Steve

[ianrunci]

[quote name='SteveK' date='Jul 1 2008, 07:53 PM' post='230836']
I am assuming that we are all talking about using a fairly decent standard of equipment - in good working order.

[b]*You will not get a 5 grand sound out of a £200 rig*[/b]

That works both way btw I have heard players get a £200 sound out of a 5 grand rig

[Tait]

i see i have a lot of arguing my point to do here

[quote name='ianrunci' post='230661' date='Jul 1 2008, 04:43 PM'][b]No but thats also a different style as well as a different sound. a precission with a pick can usually be copied by a good player with another bass and a pick[/b][/quote]

[quote name='SteveK' post='230836' date='Jul 1 2008, 07:53 PM']A Precision with a pick sounds like a Precision with a pick.

I've heard plenty of non-Musicman basses "cut through the mix" just fine.[/quote]

lol, yeah. what i was saying is that people say they like the sound of a precision with a pick, and that musicman basses cut through the mix better... BUT if the player/technique is the major contributer to tone (yeah... i know playing with a pick is a technique, it was just an example!) then how can this be so? surely any bass with a pick sounds the same if its the same player playing it, and no bass can cut through much better than other because its the same player playing it?

[quote name='ianrunci' post='230661' date='Jul 1 2008, 04:43 PM'][b]No because obviously the better the pick ups the easier it is to get a good sound and the better its made the easier it will be to play. Althoughthats not always the case, I have had cheap instruments that were everybit as easy to play as instruments 5 times the cost[/b][/quote]

yeah, but what i was saying is that if the player is the major contributor to the tone, then surely the equipment doesn't matter? how can you find it easier to get a better sound with better equipment if the player is the more important factor?

[quote name='SteveK' post='230836' date='Jul 1 2008, 07:53 PM']Not at all, but if you don't have, at least, a basic understanding of how to use:
Parametric and Graphic eq
Pre amp and Master volumes
Crossovers
High/low pass eq etc.
Then you stand little or no chance of getting "your tone" on another rig.[/quote]

i'm not sure whether you were arguing with me there? it sounded like you were, but you've actually completely supported my point.

what i meant was that people are saying that the PERSON playing it and the way he/she plays makes most of the sound, so what i was saying was if that's so, if you don't have your perfect sound you'll never get it, cos its always you playing.

you've just supported me by saying your not screwed cos you get your sound from parametric and graphic eq, preamp and master volumes etc. ie. the gear, not the player.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='lwtait' post='230899' date='Jul 1 2008, 08:58 PM']i see i have a lot of arguing my point to do here

... what i meant was that people are saying that the PERSON playing it and the way he/she plays makes most of the sound, so what i was saying was if that's so, if you don't have your perfect sound you'll never get it, cos its always you playing. ...[/quote]

If you heard Jaco playing an Encore precision through a 10W RockTek practice amp do you think you wouldn't notice it was Jaco?

Similarly: I'm willing to bet money that nobody's ever wandered past a venue and said "Wow, that must be Mark King's bass tech tuning up, I'd recognise that EQ setting anywhere!".

[Cantdosleepy]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='230918' date='Jul 1 2008, 09:24 PM']If you heard Jaco playing an Encore precision through a 10W RockTek practice amp do you think you wouldn't notice it was Jaco?[/quote]

I'd be more like 'Yikes, this room smells of dead guy. Hey check it out - zombie Jaco. Nice rig, Jacks. What are you doing? No! Back off, Jaco! No - not my brains!!!!! Noooooooooooooooooo!'

[99ster]

I was told a great story by a studio engineer who was working as an assistant on an Eric Clapton session....
They had stopped for lunch and he was told that Eric & the boys would be gone for at least a couple of hours - leaving him alone in the studio. All of Clapton's amps & guitars were set-up as they had been recording guitar parts & they had been getting a fantastic sound. This guy was a guitar player & he just couldn't resist the temptation of grabbing one of Clapton's famous Strats & having a blast through his gear at full volume - a dream come true - he too could sound just like Eric Clapton!!!
Or not.
"It still sounded just like me playing guitar - nothing at all like Clapton"....



And I also once had the pleasure of playing with the late great jazz drummer [url="http://www.steve-harris.info/"]Steve Harris[/url].
He didn't have his own kit there - but was instead using a £199 pile-of-crap junk shop kit that had been left in the corner of this skanky rehearsal studio. 5 minutes with a tuning key & it sounded like a £5,000 top-of-the-range Sonor or DW kit. All because of his skill & perfect playing technique... It didn't matter what he was playing he could make it sound good AND not complain about it either.

Edited July 2, 2008 by 99ster

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I still say most of [b]my [/b]sound come from [b]my [/b]fingers.

I have a few different basses in my house and I sound like me on all of them whether I'm playing through my gigging rig, practice amp or simple headphone amp. Sure you can tweak the tone as much as you like on the amp, but we're taling about the overall sound, not just the tone, so we have to consider the note choices, timing, groove, attack, plucking position, note lengths, muting...

[cheddatom]

I don't think the jaco analogy is very valid. He had a playing style that was distinctive. You would recognise his playing style, but think he had sh*t tone.

Your fingers control the long of the notes you play, when you play them, how fast etc.

Although you might be pedantic and say "you need your fingers to use EQ", it's quite obvious to me that TONE comes from the amplification used. This includes everything from the electronics in your bass, to your pedals, to your amp.

YES, it is often easy to replicate a certain sound on an unknown rig. However, it's certainly not always going to happen. Either way, I think this point demonstrates how important your pedals/amp/bass EQ are in sculpting your sound.


It all depends on the sound you like. If you like a tone that is basically made up of a bit of EQ and compression, and the sound of your bass, then it's always going to be easy for you to get a tone you like, or to infact replicate your tone on an unknown rig. For me personally (and i'm sure lots of BCers) it's pretty damn difficult to get my sound out of any other rig. If I didn't have my pedal board at a gig, I would still be playing with my style, but I wouldn't have my tone and more importantly the band wouldn't sound the same. If I have my pedal board, but I am asked to use someones ashdown stack, i'm a bit f*cked. This is because the ashdowns I have used don't have enough flexibility in their EQ for me to be able to "sculpt" my sound.

It's not as simple as "fingers". Some people are confusing style with tone.

EDIT:

That Clapton example up there is another instance of this. The guy had Clapton's tone, but he couldn't play like Clapton, so of course he didn't sound like Clapton! He still had Clapton's tone though.

Edited July 2, 2008 by cheddatom

[Cantdosleepy]

Problem is the discussion word is 'sound', not 'tone'. Sound is too ambiguous to actually be answerable. Is my 'sound' the fuzz? The note choices? The neatness and competency? The volume? The amount of reverb? Arguably all or any. That Clapton guy had Clapton's sound (tone) but did not have Clapton's sound (note choices). This can run and run.

Another meaningless datapoint: I swapped my rig/bass out with the guitarist for a song in my old band. Exact same setup, but he hit the strings a lot harder and played slightly more sloppily. He had my sound, but he didn't have my sound. He sounded good, but different , but the same.

Gah.

Also, now I'm a zombie.

[cheddatom]

Spot on cant do. I should have pointed out that I took the OP to relate to tone and not "sound" as in "sound in general".

[Tait]

[quote name='Cantdosleepy' post='231232' date='Jul 2 2008, 12:19 PM']Problem is the discussion word is 'sound', not 'tone'. Sound is too ambiguous to actually be answerable.[/quote]

lol yeah, i actually did that on purpose to make arguments! as i said, i started this thread when i was bored, and just wanted to get a discussion going!

[6stringbassist]

All along I've been referring to sound as in sound, as opposed to playing style attributes.

I sound like me when I play, regardless of the sounds dialed into my rig, this is through my playing style, bass etc.

[Faithless]

Bass EQ gives the Sound.
Fingers does the trick.