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Playing in time is becoming more challenging


thunderbird13
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Although I'm not that amazing I've always thought that my timing was pretty good , certainly its something I've always worked on. But I've been playing in a new band which doesnt have a drummer and I notice that its so much harder for me to keep time that I've had to stick to playing root note only to focus on counting. To make matters worse the singer doesnt quite sing on the beat so I feel her pulling me away from the one and I have to fight to get back onto it. There is an acoustic rythm guitar so I try to " lock " with that but TBH its just not the same as playing with drums !!

Has anyone else experienced this problem and what would be the best way of practicing this be

Thanks

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[quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1378389309' post='2199544']
Although I'm not that amazing I've always thought that my timing was pretty good , certainly its something I've always worked on. But I've been playing in a new band which doesnt have a drummer and I notice that its so much harder for me to keep time that I've had to stick to playing root note only to focus on counting. To make matters worse the singer doesnt quite sing on the beat so I feel her pulling me away from the one and I have to fight to get back onto it. There is an acoustic rythm guitar so I try to " lock " with that but TBH its just not the same as playing with drums !!

Has anyone else experienced this problem and what would be the best way of practicing this be

Thanks
[/quote]

What other instruments are you playing with mate?

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I know how you feel. Occasionally I'll play with bands with just bass, vocals and guitar and if the guitarist plays out of time on a solo (blues style) it sounds like we're playing different songs. What I do is ask the singer to clap to the beat when the guitarist plays a solo and that's all it needs to pull the rhythm all back together.

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I can't offer any advice. But I do know that I was surprised at how difficult it was to rehearse without a drummer when ours was off sick one time. I thought I'd be able to hold the beat together by playing loudly and solidly as CamdenRob suggests above.
But in reality in all went horribly wrong and I came away from that rehearsal feeling utterly useless.

Our drummer does have a tendancy to speed up when over excited, but I will not complain about that ever again. At least we all speed up with him, so are still all together! :lol:

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[quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1378389725' post='2199553']
Violin , ukele, amd guitar

and 3 vocals !
[/quote]

Does the whole band play in time pretty well generally?

Who sets the time normally? The guitarist?

In situations like that I find myself creating a pulse by tapping my plucking fingers on the the strings between the plucked notes, a bit like table drumming. Can't do that in the studio, but in rehearsal and live it's cool.

Like anything it takes practice mate. You could try recording your rehearsals and playing along at home perhaps.

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[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1378390931' post='2199576']

In situations like that I find myself creating a pulse by tapping my plucking fingers on the the strings between the plucked notes, a bit like table drumming. Can't do that in the studio, but in rehearsal and live it's cool.

[/quote]

actually I'm playing slap double bass so yeah I'm definatley the beat :) but its damn difficult as the vocals are so pronounced that I find it difficult hear anything else

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I too play slap double bass without a drummer & have to say that i don't struggle at all with my timing.
Maybee you concentrating on the instruments too much & not on your rythm.
Are you loud enough ?
After all you are the entire rythm section so you need to be heard & felt.

Edited by artisan
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[quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1378391908' post='2199593']
actually I'm playing slap double bass so yeah I'm definatley the beat :) but its damn difficult as the vocals are so pronounced that I find it difficult hear anything else
[/quote]

You need to hear the other instruments more then, have you got monitoring sorted out?

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[quote name='artisan' timestamp='1378392562' post='2199604']
I too play slap double bass without a drummer & have to say that i don't struggle at all with my timing.
Maybee you concentrating on the instruments too much & not on your rythm.
Are you loud enough ?
After all you are the entire rythm section so you need to be heard & felt.
[/quote]

Volume isnt the problem as its acoustic but I have found that slapping a bit harder gives me a firmer beat , do you count the band in or does someone else do that ?

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It's always a lot harder to play without a drummer. Whenever I've had to do it I usually keep things simple, ie no fancy stuff, and I pump the 1 of each bar to really mark it. Also don't stress in these situations. It'll come a lot easier if you can relax into it. Timekeeping is something we all take for granted when it works as there's normally a drummer there to lead it, but it is harder without one, and the whole band have to get used to the feel of the songs in this situation. It may take a few gigs to settle down with it.
Gigs without a drummer has made me so much more aware of tempos. A couple of BPM either way can kill a groove. I think about tempos a lot more now than I ever did, whether I'm playing with a drummer or not.
I would suggest practising your bass parts to find the right tempo for the songs (assuming you will be counting them in). It'll save having to speed up/slow down the tempo on a gig because you started it too slow/fast.
Best of luck, and enjoy the gigs :)

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[quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1378393536' post='2199620']


Volume isnt the problem as its acoustic but I have found that slapping a bit harder gives me a firmer beat , do you count the band in or does someone else do that ?
[/quote]

i count most songs in but not all,sometimes the guitarists play an intro & i then come in a few bars later.
While i'm not a very technical player i do have a very good sense if rythm & even get compliments for the way i drive the songs along.

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You tend to find out others time-keeping abilities when the drums aren`t there. A good few bands I`ve been in, they`ve had no idea and would speed up, slow down all over the place. When I told them to listen to the bass and play along with me they were amazed - the bass doesn`t keep time, does it?

Hopefully this was more a reflection of their stoopidness than of my playing.

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[quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1378395997' post='2199687']
Thats why I'm focusing on just keeping the let hand simple and concentrating on the rythm. Perhaps I'm concentrating too hard !
[/quote]

could well be the case,i always play best when i'm just chilling & feeling the groove,the songs just seem to flow along nicely.

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Can you use a click tone in an ear piece to give you the timing? Also, if the others know you're following a click, they may be stronger in trying to keep with you.

Some devices will allow you to tap the rhythm as well, so sync with others who've already started can be achieved.... just a thought.

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Music doesn't have to be metronomic. Depends on style, certainly, but a variance in tempo can be very refreshing (as long as all are playing together...). So it varies slightly, or accelerates in the 'stronger' parts. So..? If it sounds good, go with it.
([i]This should not, of course, be a substitute for incompetence[/i]...)

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[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1378404713' post='2199886']
Music doesn't have to be metronomic. Depends on style, certainly, but a variance in tempo can be very refreshing (as long as all are playing together...). So it varies slightly, or accelerates in the 'stronger' parts. So..? If it sounds good, go with it.
([i]This should not, of course, be a substitute for incompetence[/i]...)
[/quote]

Wholly agree with this.
It does rather put the onus on listening to what's going on around you and responding appropriately. It works best when everyone is able to 'respond in the moment' and adjust as you all go along together. If that can't happen, it may be best to have a referral source for the beat, which could be a bass, vocalist, or in other realms, a conductor etc

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[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1378404713' post='2199886']
Music doesn't have to be metronomic. Depends on style, certainly, but a variance in tempo can be very refreshing (as long as all are playing together...). So it varies slightly, or accelerates in the 'stronger' parts. So..? If it sounds good, go with it.
([i]This should not, of course, be a substitute for incompetence[/i]...)
[/quote]

The problem with that is, every amateur band who rush and drag together think it sounds good. Yeah, to THEM it might, but very likely to others it will not be grooving.

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[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1378405162' post='2199890']
Recently I've been learning finger style having played with only a pick for years. I've noticed that my timing is definitely much better with a plectrum. Something I really need to work on with my right hand I guess.
[/quote]

It does get better, I`ve played with a pick since I started, and only really started finger-style at the start of last year. By August I did some recording finger-style, and in December my band played a jazz/swing-style gig where I played with fingers. Still get better intensity/attack with a pick, but if I were to drop a pick I`d be happy enough to continue to the end of the song, whereas two years ago I wouldn`t have been.

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