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WHAT SIZE AMPS DO YOU NEED TO GIG WITH?

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I just did the test again, but with both going through my Mark bass NY121 extension cab and the results were much the same, if anything the Ampeg was fractionally louder than through its own speaker, according to my decibel monitor, but only a fraction, and the Mark bass was still fractional louder than the Ampeg, but not 270watts worth louder, we're just talking about 1db which I think is about 10% louder.

Edited by chrisanthony1211

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For me, I take either a 750w into 4 or 2.67 ohms or an 800w into 4.
I get them loud enough for the gig.

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Interesting result, I assumed that the Markbass combo would have been running very inefficiently with such a small enclosure volume for the combo speaker and would have opened the gap a bit when using the same cab for both amps.

How loud (db) does the B15 get before distortion becomes unavoidable?

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I think we can surmise from all this info that a decent 50W all-valve amp is eminently giggable - with the right cab. Does anyone have an Ampeg PF-50T and if so, is it any good?

http://www.thomann.de/gb/ampeg_pf_50t_bass_head.htm

Edited by discreet

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Depend you use PA support the bass or not. I gig with my LB30 (30watt valve) and a 1x10 small combo (100watt) before. Both with PA support.

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[quote name='badboy1984' timestamp='1461073974' post='3031174']
Depend you use PA support the bass or not. I gig with my LB30 (30watt valve) and a 1x10 small combo (100watt) before. Both with PA support.
[/quote]

What I want to know is if a 50W all-valve amp can be successfully gigged without PA support. Going by what my 100W all-valve amp was like, I'm guessing that it can.

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1461074230' post='3031176']
What I want to know is if a 50W all-valve amp can be successfully gigged without PA support. Going by what my 100W all-valve amp was like, I'm guessing that it can.
[/quote]

Depend on the venue and cab you use. In theory yes 50watt all valve bass head is good enough.

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1461074230' post='3031176']
What I want to know is if a 50W all-valve amp can be successfully gigged without PA support. Going by what my 100W all-valve amp was like, I'm guessing that it can.
[/quote]

Depends on the gig, but I've done no end of pub & small club gigs with a 60W Carlsbro - all with sweaty drummers.

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[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1461073218' post='3031163']
Interesting result, I assumed that the Markbass combo would have been running very inefficiently with such a small enclosure volume for the combo speaker and would have opened the gap a bit when using the same cab for both amps.

How loud (db) does the B15 get before distortion becomes unavoidable?
[/quote]

There's no crazy distortion even when turned up to 10, it breaks up a bit, but in a very nice way, but I wouldn't call it distortion, I have my first practise with it on Friday night, and then will be gigging it on Saturday night, I may sling my markbass and NY extension cab in the boot just in case!,,,,

It will be interesting to see how it get on at practise, I used to have a 240 watt SWR redhead which sounded sweet, but even struggled to cut through when practising, I'm pretty sure the Ampeg is louder than that was, but time will tell.....

I suppose what a solid state amp gives you is the weight and size advantage, but for some reason you need to pump more watts through it to achieve the same volume!

Edited by chrisanthony1211

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Loud band, 150 capacity venue, a lightish bass playing style...350w class D head with volume at 9o'clock.

I've played with two neaderthal drummers previously and I've never needed anymore than a 300w amp...perhaps I'm just behind the times

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I've fried three different amps (luckily only once at a gig and they've all been mine) due to them being underpowered.

I now prefer to have enough power (I use a 500W power amp that I barely turn up). And to run into 8Ohm+ loads. Power transistors work harder at lower impedances.

However, the question makes no sense. How loud you sound depends on the room, your cab and your EQ before it depends on how much power your amp has.

Then enough power to be heard with a drummer is one thing (easy done with a beat up old 50W solid state that's EQ'd to be heard) being heard with the right tone is another, then as above, not frying your amp!

I have a nice 50W combo that I use when there's no drummer. That's fine, not because it's unusable with a drummer, but if I EQ'd it the way I wanted it, I'd fry it.

Edited by bigjohn

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Out of curiousity what three amps did you blow & what kind of EQing do you do that's liable to fry things?

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[QUOTE]Discrete said "What I want to know is if a 50W all-valve amp can be successfully gigged without PA support. Going by what my 100W all-valve amp was like, I'm guessing that it can."[/QUOTE]Oh yes, for sure.

LD

PS: Should add "with the right speakers".

Edited by luckydog

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[quote name='chrisanthony1211' timestamp='1460833476' post='3029252']
Well this may not be the most scientific experiment in the world, but it's the best I have. I A / B volume tested the two amps with a decibel monitor placed about 20 foot away, 30 watts of Ampeg and the left, 300 watts of Mark bass on the right...(the Ampeg certainly wins out on sexiness!!)

[URL=http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/chrisanthony1611/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps4lwkr7tp.jpeg.html][IMG]http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r776/chrisanthony1611/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps4lwkr7tp.jpeg[/IMG][/URL]

The Mark bass got to 94 / 95 decibels at about three quarters volume, it was sounding stressed and maxed out and I certainly wasn't going to take it any higher, and it didn't really get much louder after 12 o clock, and the quality of the sound was certainly degenerating.
The Ampeg was quite happy being maxed out and sounded great from 1 through to 10, and that maxed out at 93 / 94 decibels, which I think is about 10% less volume than the Mark bass.

As I said, not the most scientific test in the world, but tells a story, I've not gigged it yet, that comes next Saturday in a function room at a pub which will be a test as our drummer is not the quietest.....
Oh, and my favourite channel,on the Ampeg is the 1964 channel which is only 25 watt......🤔
When I bought it off Beadster he said it was surprisingly loud, and he was right, gets me thinking about those watts though!,,
[/quote]

For the test to be fair, you did of course have only 1x 12" speaker connected in the Ampeg cab then?

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[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1461256596' post='3032996']


For the test to be fair, you did of course have only 1x 12" speaker connected in the Ampeg cab then?
[/quote]

The first test I did was through the combos own speakers, I did again putting them both through a Mark bass NY121, and the results were much the same, the Mark bass was about 1db louder, which I think is about 10%

First rehersal with it tomorrow night 🤔🤔

Edited by chrisanthony1211

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Rehersal went well with the 30 watts of Ampeg, we're not the loudest band in the world, but the Ampeg more than held its own, didn't gig with it on Saturday as there was a real estate shortage and the markbass takes up a lot less space, next gig it gets a runout..

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Sad that this has turned into another Valves are great, SS is bad thread.

One thing about the aesthetics of Ampeg. I came to bass late in life but even as a guitard in a former life I always thought Ampeg amps looked cheap and nasty. Look at an SVT against a Marshall or Sound City head. No wonder most wanted to be guitard.

Edited by Chienmortbb

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I always thought exactly the opposite. To me an Ampeg SVT rig is a thing of beauty.
Marshalls look okay, but Sound City?......

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[quote name='casapete' timestamp='1461571769' post='3035652']
I always thought exactly the opposite. To me an Ampeg SVT rig is a thing of beauty.
[/quote]

+1. Ampeg gear looks great imho. Iconic, even.

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Sound City.......nostalgia ain't what it used to be...........

I worked at Sound City in Shaftsbury Ave in the 70's, in the amp repair workshop in the basement on the corner of Gerrard St. As well as repairing all manner of amps, the workshop used to hand build Sound City heads there.......

I was the general dogsbody, got to play and test all manner of amps, and it shaped my opinions forever of what sounds 'right'. I also learned about amp repair, esp valve amps. Both my back and my ears survived, and I wasn't electrocuted - I count that as a success looking back on it. Got to meet iconic guitarists too, just took it all for granted at the time.

Anyways, Sound City amps look like they belong to that time, will always be sort of classic in my mind. Whether they are classic amps in the true sense, well I think so, they have their place in the history of it all. I would say that I suppose, I built some of them !

LD

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[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1461567282' post='3035629']
Sad that this has turned into another Valves are great, SS is bad thread.
[/quote]

Got to say that I love both, but for entirely different reasons, I love solid state amps for their power to weight ratio, and clear sounds, and I love valve Amps for their creamy smooth lows......

I don't think one is better than the other, just different, it's like saying do I like bread a butter pudding or double sticky toffee pudding (with rivers of custard) , you just got to love them both...

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There is oodles of variables that will effect your required amp size.

Variables including : venue type and size, venue PA size (if applicable) & quality, band size / loudness and the genre of music you are playing.

All amps behave differently too. What sort of tone are you looking for..?

Then there is the logistical questions - does the rig fit in my house & in my car to gigs - do i need an amp for practice or at rehearsal? does it have to be the same amp..?

Decisions, decisions, decisions...

For me, i will always go through a PA - which are normally pretty decent and large too as mostly play quite sizeable clubs. I have 2x guitars, drums and keys to cut with so i like to have plenty of volume behind me. I normally will use a 500W amp with 4x10 and 1x15 cabs paired together (which some people will say is a sin!) but it works for me. I then use the 1x15 for rehearsals and have even used the 4x10 for the odd pub gig.

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Gigged with the Amoeg Heritage B-15 last night, it was a pub gig with a pretty loud drummer but the B--15 proved to be more than enough through either the 25 or 30 watt channel. Volume through either channel was on about 2 o'clock, so plenty to spare, I think this will be enough for a reasonably busy hall, but time will tell..!!

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To answer the question I'd say an amp that's loud enough to keep up with an un-mic'd drum kit. Anything louder than that should be having PA supportfor bigger venues etc where the bass rig effectively becomes an on stage monitor.

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