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WHAT SIZE AMPS DO YOU NEED TO GIG WITH?

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Technology obviously changes, and I guess since 2008 there have been a few break throughs regarding getting maximum heft! However all my thoughts about watts and volume have been soundly turned on their head by my resent acquisition of beadsters Ampeg heritage b15, with a hefty 30 watts through a single 15 inch speaker, this baby is loud, and matches my 300 watt Mark bass CMD121p for volume, and kicks it's ass for heft!
I'm yet to gig with it, but that will be done next Saturday night, but I'm expecting great things, so the answer to the initial post, is ......... Don't be fooled by watts.......!

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[quote name='chrisanthony1211' timestamp='1460819931' post='3029082']
Technology obviously changes, and I guess since 2008 there have been a few break throughs regarding getting maximum heft! However all my thoughts about watts and volume have been soundly turned on their head by my resent acquisition of beadsters Ampeg heritage b15, with a hefty 30 watts through a single 15 inch speaker, this baby is loud, and matches my 300 watt Mark bass CMD121p for volume, and kicks it's ass for heft!
I'm yet to gig with it, but that will be done next Saturday night, but I'm expecting great things, so the answer to the initial post, is ......... Don't be fooled by watts.......!
[/quote]

Not saying your lying having never tried either amp but surely 30w valve would get blown away by the markbass???. I've had a good low watt all valve amp albeit about 22w through a fifteen and in my view it was maybe the equivalent of a 50 to 75w solid state.

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[quote name='chrisanthony1211' timestamp='1460819931' post='3029082']
...beadsters Ampeg heritage b15, with a hefty 30 watts through a single 15 inch speaker, this baby is loud, and matches my 300 watt Mark bass CMD121p for volume, and kicks it's ass for heft!
[/quote]

Still trying to ascertain what the db difference was between the two, do you know?

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[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1460820892' post='3029091']
Not saying your lying having never tried either amp but surely 30w valve would get blown away by the markbass???. I've had a good low watt all valve amp albeit about 22w through a fifteen and in my view it was maybe the equivalent of a 50 to 75w solid state.
[/quote]

Depends on many different variables including cab and driver efficiency, number of cabs and drivers, etc.
The loudest amp I've ever used was a 1974 100W valve job through two BFM J12 cabs loaded with Kappalites.

Edited by discreet

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1460823516' post='3029128']


Depends on many different variables including cab and driver efficiency, number of cabs and drivers, etc.
The loudest amp I've ever used was a 1974 100W valve job through two BFM J12 cabs loaded with Kappalites.
[/quote]

True but I'm not seeing a 30w valve amp and the associated Ampeg 15" and cab coming anywhere near the 300w markbass at 8ohm and it's not as if the mb stuff is overrated for watts even. People do gigs with the mb cmd121p combo alone and with its lm3 head can also do 500w with an extra cab.
Not many people have been know to do a gig with a b15 although I'm sure some can get away with it they are not known as power houses.

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Well this may not be the most scientific experiment in the world, but it's the best I have. I A / B volume tested the two amps with a decibel monitor placed about 20 foot away, 30 watts of Ampeg and the left, 300 watts of Mark bass on the right...(the Ampeg certainly wins out on sexiness!!)

[URL=http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/chrisanthony1611/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps4lwkr7tp.jpeg.html][IMG]http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r776/chrisanthony1611/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps4lwkr7tp.jpeg[/IMG][/URL]

The Mark bass got to 94 / 95 decibels at about three quarters volume, it was sounding stressed and maxed out and I certainly wasn't going to take it any higher, and it didn't really get much louder after 12 o clock, and the quality of the sound was certainly degenerating.
The Ampeg was quite happy being maxed out and sounded great from 1 through to 10, and that maxed out at 93 / 94 decibels, which I think is about 10% less volume than the Mark bass.

As I said, not the most scientific test in the world, but tells a story, I've not gigged it yet, that comes next Saturday in a function room at a pub which will be a test as our drummer is not the quietest.....
Oh, and my favourite channel,on the Ampeg is the 1964 channel which is only 25 watt......🤔
When I bought it off Beadster he said it was surprisingly loud, and he was right, gets me thinking about those watts though!,,

Edited by chrisanthony1211

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[quote name='chrisanthony1211' timestamp='1460833476' post='3029252']
Well this may not be the most scientific experiment in the world, but it's the best I have. I A / B volume tested the two amps with a decibel monitor placed about 20 foot away, 30 watts of Ampeg and the left, 300 watts of Mark bass on the right...(the Ampeg certainly wins out on sexiness!!)

[URL=http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/chrisanthony1611/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps4lwkr7tp.jpeg.html][IMG]http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r776/chrisanthony1611/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps4lwkr7tp.jpeg[/IMG][/URL]

The Mark bass got to 94 / 95 decibels at about three quarters volume, it was sounding stressed and maxed out and I certainly wasn't going to take it any higher, and it didn't really get much louder after 12 o clock, and the quality of the sound was certainly degenerating.
The Ampeg was quite happy being maxed out and sounded great from 1 through to 10, and that maxed out at 93 / 94 decibels, which I think is about 10% less volume that the Mark bass.

As I said, not the most scientific test in the world, but tells a story, I've not gigged it yet, that comes next Saturday in a function room at a pub which will be a test as our drummer is not the quietest.....
Oh, and my favourite channel,on the Ampeg is the 1964 channel which is only 25 watt......🤔
When I bought it off Beadster he said it was surprisingly loud, and he was right, gets me thinking about those watts though!,,
[/quote]

Interesting. Well that's put me right off getting any markbass gear!

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This sort of runs in parallel with the "Do you always use drive/grind" thread that's going on in General discussion at the moment. Those bass sounds which don't sound dirty in context but would actually have quite a bit of distortion going on (if you were to measure it) are just the kind of thing that a good valve amp does well. I suspect that on the Ampeg you can merrily sail in and out of power amp clipping before you really notice that it's distorted.
I had a 100 watt valve amp with a fairly efficient 2x12" for a while, and found it was always plenty for my needs, and I never really got it to the point of sounding grindy though it would squash and compress in a pleasing way at louder gigs.

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[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1460834131' post='3029254']


Interesting. Well that's put me right off getting any markbass gear!
[/quote]

The Mark bass is great, lighter and louder than anything this size has any right to be, its just that the Ampeg 30 watts are pretty magical (and heavy) and it should be considering how much these things cost!

I certainly won't be getting rid of the Mark bass, of all the amps I've had, it's the one I've kept the longest, it's so practical, and with the equally practical NY121 you have a powerful lightweight 212 rig...

Edited by chrisanthony1211

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An old photo; the amp I'm playing through in the background is our Fender Bassman 50w, into a 2 x 15 cab. We're playing outdoors (La Fête de la Musique, in front of a café/bar...), and it was plenty loud enough for our pop/rock covers (U2, Radiohead, Noir Désir etc...). It's not stadium rock, but I never had to turn the thing up to max to be heard, and the two guitars use valve half-stacks..!

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Depends a LOT on what you are playing, where, and who you are playing with. A 350W head should give you what you need a in a small room, but you might need a 15 cab. Alternatively, playing a big gig with two guitarists maxing their heads out might need 500w and a 4x10 to get you heard. Also, it can vary a lot depending on manufacturer, an ashdown or laney head will be quiet where as an orange or Harttke will be loud. Tough question!

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[quote name='chrisanthony1211' timestamp='1460833476' post='3029252']
Well this may not be the most scientific experiment in the world, but it's the best I have. I A / B volume tested the two amps with a decibel monitor placed about 20 foot away, 30 watts of Ampeg and the left, 300 watts of Mark bass on the right...(the Ampeg certainly wins out on sexiness!!)

[url="http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/chrisanthony1611/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps4lwkr7tp.jpeg.html"][/url]

The Mark bass got to 94 / 95 decibels at about three quarters volume, it was sounding stressed and maxed out and I certainly wasn't going to take it any higher, and it didn't really get much louder after 12 o clock, and the quality of the sound was certainly degenerating.
The Ampeg was quite happy being maxed out and sounded great from 1 through to 10, and that maxed out at 93 / 94 decibels, which I think is about 10% less volume than the Mark bass.

As I said, not the most scientific test in the world, but tells a story, I've not gigged it yet, that comes next Saturday in a function room at a pub which will be a test as our drummer is not the quietest.....
Oh, and my favourite channel,on the Ampeg is the 1964 channel which is only 25 watt......
When I bought it off Beadster he said it was surprisingly loud, and he was right, gets me thinking about those watts though!,,
[/quote]
I suspect your test shows more about the efficiency of the cab/driver combinations in each combo at turning watts into db than whether the B15(or valve watts) is somehow magically louder - you would need to run both amps through the same cab to get a meaningful comparison.

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[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1460905739' post='3029660']
I suspect your test shows more about the efficiency of the cab/driver combinations in each combo at turning watts into db than whether the B15 (or valve watts) is somehow magically louder - you would need to run both amps through the same cab to get a meaningful comparison.
[/quote]

I'm more interested in finding out if a B15 will cut the mustard at a gig. I await the results of Mrs Anthony's live experiment next Saturday with bated trousers.

Edited by discreet

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B15's are sexy amps, but IMHO the issue is more likely to be weight and bulk making shlepping it about an issue - 99lbs is just too damn heavy(for me at least) for regular gig usage if you don't have roadies to move it for you.

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1460906331' post='3029668']

I await the results of Mrs Anthony's live experiment next Saturday with bated trousers.
[/quote]

It's Mr Anthony!!!!

It's 82 lbs according to the spec on the website, my plan is for Ampeg b15 on ground floor gigs, markbass stack for anything above ground level, although to be honest, it doesn't seem that heavy....

Edited by chrisanthony1211

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[quote name='chrisanthony1211' timestamp='1460910792' post='3029721']
It's Mr Anthony!
[/quote]

Er, that's what I meant. :D

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[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1460905739' post='3029660']

I suspect your test shows more about the efficiency of the cab/driver combinations in each combo at turning watts into db than whether the B15(or valve watts) is somehow magically louder - you would need to run both amps through the same cab to get a meaningful comparison.
[/quote]

This can be arranged, I shall put them both through the same 8ohm speaker tomorrow night and do the same test....

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[quote name='chrisanthony1211' timestamp='1460910792' post='3029721']
It's Mr Anthony!!!!

It's 82 lbs according to the spec on the website, my plan is for Ampeg b15 on ground floor gigs, markbass stack for anything above ground level, although to be honest, it doesn't seem that heavy....
[/quote]
My bad, must have looked at the spec for the heritage when I posted, still too heavy for solo load in/out for my back/knees however - I've got an old peavey which has similar weight and dimensions, but it has only ever done duty as a rehearsal room amp, because it is such hard work to move from one place to another.

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I'm wondering if the new Ampeg 50W valve amp would be giggable. With a lightweight cab, obviously.

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1460913684' post='3029756']
I'm wondering if the new Ampeg 50W valve amp would be giggable. With a lightweight cab, obviously.
[/quote]

With pa help yes, on its own I would be very sceptical, maybe with a large cab and small or quieter gigs.
I'm still not believing the b15 vs markbass results it's one of those things I need to see and hear.

Edited by Twincam

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[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1460918580' post='3029809']
With pa help yes, on its own I would be very sceptical, maybe with a large cab and small or quieter gigs.
I'm still not believing the b15 vs markbass results it's one of those things I need to see and hear.
[/quote]

There's only one way to find out, really. The loudest amp I've owned was a 100W all-valve, and it wasn't ever possible to have that running at full whack - it was just stupid loud and that was in a loud rock band with a shed-building drummer. It was also the best-sounding amp I've ever owned too, incidentally.

So you'd think a good 50W all-valve would be more than sufficient. The big pain of gigging is mostly (imho) due to the size and weight of your cab(s) - amps aren't quite so critical, unless you're hauling an Ampeg SVT-CL or similar, which run to 35kg and will burst your scrotum if you're over 50.

Remember my current band are not rock and not loud - I can't get my Rumble 500 Combo quiet enough (running at 350W max without an extension cab).

Edited by discreet

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1460918955' post='3029812']


There's only one way to find out FIGHT!. The loudest amp I've owned was a 100W all-valve, and it wasn't ever possible to have that running at full whack - it was just stupid loud and that was in a loud rock band with a shed-building drummer. It was also the best-sounding amp I've ever owned too, incidentally.

So you'd think a good 50W all-valve would be more than sufficient. The big pain of gigging is mostly (imho) due to the size and weight of your cab(s) - amps aren't quite so critical, unless you're hauling an Ampeg SVT-CL or similar, which run to 35kg and will burst your scrotum if you're over 50.

Remember my current band are not rock and not loud - I can't get my Rumble 500 Combo quiet enough (running at 350W max without an extension cab).
[/quote]

I edited your post for amusement.

I can see what you mean. But on anecdotal evidence and there's years of it a b15 isn't a gigging amp for anything other than smaller gigs etc, where again there's a lot of evidence to say the my combo is.
I dunno it just doesn't seem or sound right, I'm open to learning more on this.

And can't you set a volume on your amp then use your basses volume, that's what I've had to do when practicing at home. I've had a few amps that are very unruly.

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[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1460921350' post='3029835']
I can see what you mean now and you're absolutely right. I'm sorry I ever questioned you, what was I thinking? If you PM me your address I'll send you £1000 in used tenners by registered post as a token of goodwill. And please send me an autographed 8X10 photo of yourself, I'm a big fan! If there's ever anything else I can do for you, just ask. Drugs, money, girls, anything - just ask - and remember, I love you. :)
[/quote]

I edited your post for amusement, too.

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I'm always surprised by how loud a valve amp can be.
I regularly gigged with a folk group with a 50 watt valve amp.
It ran at about 80% full output into a modern efficient 1x15 cab and sounded wonderful.

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The rig in my avatar is a 1973 50W valve Bassman and Bassman 2x15 cab. This is plenty loud and good - there's level to spare for gigs, plus it sounds lovely with a M88 mic on it for venues with serious PAs.

Watts were bigger and better back in the day....... ;)

I will say that the cab in that rig is a big part of achieving proper sound and level from just 50W. !

LD

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