orange bass terror

[dan670844]

hello all, I have been looking at a lighweight valve hybrid amp and was fortunate to try an orange bass terror. I have for some time played all valve designs SVT ashdown ctm300 and lb30. This is going to sound contenious but I have to say I was highly disappointed. It claims to be 500watts, but it did not feel nowhere near, my 300watt ctm would blow it into the weeds on half tilt, even the lb30 would get there if it was growly. the tone was hard and all low mids, didnt feel the bass at all. The amp was not all dynamic, when you dug in there was little percieved vol increase. For reference i tried an orange ad200 into the same cabs (orange 15 and 410) and it was all there, very lush. What am I doing wrong? was it a dud? I really need a lightweight valve sounding solution as we are rehearsing at a place in town were I have to get the tube. The little lunch box would be ideal!!

[yorick]

Did you change the impedance on the back of the amp?

[Lozz196]

Surprised re comments on power, I had one, and with volume and gain on 2, that was all was needed for gigging with a punk band (so not quiet). It was through a Marshall VBC412 though, which is a very powerful cab.

[dan670844]

[quote name='yorick' timestamp='1359278769' post='1952292']
Did you change the impedance on the back of the amp?
[/quote]

Well I assume so the guy in the shop must have set it correctly. It was already set up when I went in. It went quite loud just not the kind of loud I like it was very middy compared to the AD200, (the ad200 is a thumping good amp, first time id had a decent go) . With the TB500 there was not really any increase in percieved vol. Maybe its the digital power section. It just doesnt cut it with my playing style. I am going to give the Markbass TTE 500 see if that fairs any better. I guess I am used to valve power amps.

[fretmeister]

Genz Streamliner 900

[0175westwood29]

[quote name='dan670844' timestamp='1359283861' post='1952371']


Well I assume so the guy in the shop must have set it correctly. It was already set up when I went in. It went quite loud just not the kind of loud I like it was very middy compared to the AD200, (the ad200 is a thumping good amp, first time id had a decent go) . With the TB500 there was not really any increase in percieved vol. Maybe its the digital power section. It just doesnt cut it with my playing style. I am going to give the Markbass TTE 500 see if that fairs any better. I guess I am used to valve power amps.
[/quote]

Not played a terror bass but doubt you'll get to sound exactly like the ad200 due to the lack of a tube power section

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1359284549' post='1952381']
Not played a terror bass but doubt you'll get to sound exactly like the ad200 due to the lack of a tube power section
[/quote]

a tube power section doesn't do much of anything special that a class D doesn't.

With a tube power section the impendence has to match exactly to get the most out of it, with a class D it's not so important.
The 'juice' of a valve power amp only makes a difference once yo start pushing as the power valves start to naturally compress the signal.
IMO a class D power amp is a lot better in many ways that even today's valve power sections.

The OTB has one of the most solid power sections on the market, it is 500watt in either 8 ohm or 4 ohm, regardless. Where as quiet a few that a rated similar wattage struggle to get there on burst, let a lone continuous.

Unfortunatly(IMO) that's all the OTB has to offer, the EQ is lack luster, and the rest of it's features are pretty poor, even for it's price range. The EQ is the por mans passive one and comes with a naturally deep mid-scoop(lots of low mid present) and seems very boomy, to get a flat signal out of it you need the bass pretty much off.

Although surprised that you found it lacking in oomph, maybe you miss-set the input gain?

[dan670844]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1359287513' post='1952422']
a tube power section doesn't do much of anything special that a class D doesn't.

With a tube power section the impendence has to match exactly to get the most out of it, with a class D it's not so important.
The 'juice' of a valve power amp only makes a difference once yo start pushing as the power valves start to naturally compress the signal.
IMO a class D power amp is a lot better in many ways that even today's valve power sections.

The OTB has one of the most solid power sections on the market, it is 500watt in either 8 ohm or 4 ohm, regardless. Where as quiet a few that a rated similar wattage struggle to get there on burst, let a lone continuous.

Unfortunatly(IMO) that's all the OTB has to offer, the EQ is lack luster, and the rest of it's features are pretty poor, even for it's price range. The EQ is the por mans passive one and comes with a naturally deep mid-scoop(lots of low mid present) and seems very boomy, to get a flat signal out of it you need the bass pretty much off.

Although surprised that you found it lacking in oomph, maybe you miss-set the input gain?
[/quote]

It's supposed to have the same eq as a ad200, but tonally its nowhere near, its so scouped. I think the harmonics that the tube output stage makes in the 'sweet spot' must make up for the weakness. But yes I agree it is all low mids and you cant get rid of it. The burst power or peak power is no where near as good as my CTM300. Yes the terror bass has volume but I think it is very flat and undynamic. I really tried as I want it to work, the gain doesnt affect the slope like a all tube design either. I don't think its the output module class d or other wise. Its probably the switchmode power supply, I guess they work very well with class A designs (constant current), but with a class d module, its got to be the worst combination unless its got a lot of output. I know its is possible as I have a proel power amp. Also there is a german manufacturer called basssysteme who make a nice class d with dynamics and grunt. I guess its not possible though for £500.

Yes I could try a Genz streamliner, but have any shops got any to try?

Edited January 27, 2013 by dan670844

[dannybuoy]

Funny thing is, all those problems you are describing are how I felt about the Streamliner! Lack of low end, scooped, lacking in volume and dynamics. Now I have the Terror I have bags more volume and low end! It may be scooped with the controls set to noon, but you can EQ out the mid scoop if you want to. It scopes pretty much flat with mids on full and bass and treble all the way down.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1359287513' post='1952422']
a tube power section doesn't do much of anything special that a class D doesn't.

With a tube power section the impendence has to match exactly to get the most out of it, with a class D it's not so important.
The 'juice' of a valve power amp only makes a difference once yo start pushing as the power valves start to naturally compress the signal.
IMO a class D power amp is a lot better in many ways that even today's valve power sections.
[/quote]

That isn't true at all. The very stuff you mention is part of what class D doesn't do, and pushing the power section doesn't necessarily mean massive volume, they are fairly bandwidth limited which means real lows can produce harmonics, which gives the impression of massive low end without much power or straining speakers. Also valve power sections couple with valve preamps much better, down to the same impedance issues as the output stage. Plus all the compression and bandwidth limiting you get from a valve amp is more natural than the limiting built into the Orange bass Terror (which the 4/8 ohm switch changes).

[Bigwan]

[quote name='dan670844' timestamp='1359283861' post='1952371']
Well I assume so the guy in the shop must have set it correctly. It was already set up when I went in.
[/quote]

Sorry? Are you serious? Hardly a real world test...

[LiamPodmore]

Flat on the Terror bass isn't noon, as it's a passive EQ section same as the AD200B. I can't remember the exact settings for it though, but i'm sure someone else will appear momentarily who can remember.

Liam

[Mr. Foxen]

Max mids, min bass and treble is roughly flat. The impedance setting just affects where the limiter kicks in so unless you are pushing the full 500w it makes not much odds, and 500w is goign to melt most cabs. Watts are pretty meaningless to volume from the amp, if you were hearing breakup from something other than the preamp section, which is unlikely with the stock valves in the Bass Terror, then it would be the speakers in the cab.

[dan670844]

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1359300967' post='1952688']
Sorry? Are you serious? Hardly a real world test...
[/quote]

How else do we test an amp before we buy? run it on a gig, buy it then decide you don't like it. That seems to be common practice here fnarr fnarr.

[IanA]

The DI sucks so bad on the Terror, through a good cab I thought the amp sounded great though and very loud.
Now sold as I need a good DI out.

[Jacqueslemac]

When we play at a venue with its own sound man/woman, I'm always told how good the Orange Bass Terror is, no matter who sets up the sound.

And they always use the DI.

[dannybuoy]

It doesn't suck other than that it is too loud - but you can fix that with a £5 XLR attenuator!

[BassTractor]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1359366128' post='1953462']
It doesn't suck other than that it is too loud - but you can fix that with a £5 XLR attenuator!
[/quote]

Cool! Would 10dB do? 20?

Thanks,
bert

[Mr. Foxen]

I think 40 was the recommended.

[jaydentaku]

yes, 40 with original tubes, 20 if you replace the tubes with lower gain jobbies.

[Lozz196]

And apparently later models had this aspect fixed as well?

[BassTractor]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1359392266' post='1954072']
I think 40 was the recommended.
[/quote]

[quote name='jaydentaku' timestamp='1359395752' post='1954127']
yes, 40 with original tubes, 20 if you replace the tubes with lower gain jobbies.
[/quote]

Thanks, guys!

best,
bert

[IanA]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1359366128' post='1953462']
It doesn't suck other than that it is too loud - but you can fix that with a £5 XLR attenuator!
[/quote]
Mine was a later amp that had been modified so no attenuation required. I am comparing the DI to genz Benz and tc heads that I use and in comparison to my ears and to those listening it was weeker, the engineer I spoke to at orange told me it was also preset and fixed to post eq
Please don't hear me wrong, I am not Orange bashing, I love the tone of their amps, however to my ears compared to other amps I own the DI was not as good.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Iana

[jaydentaku]

With regard to the topic, I am concerned it wasn't well or setup incorectly. I play in a Doom band with two guitarists and I have it on 2 with an OBC410. We have some flags on the wall behind my rig (don't ask me why) and I demonstarted on sunday, that the speakers push enough air out of the rear port to flap the flags about.

Its loud

[Low End Bee]

Even with a 40db attenuator mine sounded horrid through DI but wonderful through the cab. All my gigs are DI these days so it had to go which was a real shame. Never got past 3 on the volume on a non DI gig. It was certainly loud.