Big_Stu Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1356017847' post='1905791']I am only trying to point out that their attempts to suggest that CD is the worse medium for the task of reproducing music may actually be somewhat flawed. If they read up, have a think, and can get their heads around the points being made on all sides they may be better educated[/quote] You really can't help yourself can you? Sorry if I haven't pandered to your superiority complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1356011686' post='1905668']The issue seems to kick off when it's claimed that vinyl is a better reproduction system than CD. Since no-one can (reasonably) argue against personal preference, it's left to the science to get at some real facts[/quote] I wasn't aware that anyone had, just that it's different. What I can't abide is the train of thought of "Oh, they're still not agreeing with me, OK then - I'll throw another 400+ words at them until they do." I mean - even Spock was a man of few words! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 great stuff, I only asked whether anybody else turned the treble down for CD's. Imagine what would happen if we tried this discussion down the pub after a few pints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Isn't it simply a case that [i]music is an art[/i], whereas [i]sound[/i] [i]is science[/i]? One highly subjective, the other measurably objective. The characteristics of sound and of different musical formats and playback devices can be described in scientific terms (specifically the laws of physics). So while science can't easily determine what sounds better - only your own ears can do that - it can determine what has the most potential to sound better, based on things like frequency range/response, etc, etc. At least I think that's the point people are trying to make here. More importantly, which is better: ice cream or custard? We all know it's custard, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leroydiamond Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Time to break open a beer and stick on a bit of Zeppelin- on vinyl of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1356019629' post='1905834']At least I think that's the point people are trying to make here.[/quote] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u-I0D9ReqI[/media] I used to have this as the out-going on my answering machine once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Regardless of the technical merits of either format , I think it fair to conclude that either vinyl or CD can sound pretty damn good with the right equipment in the right environment . Does that sound like a reasonable compromise ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1356020263' post='1905852'] Regardless of the technical merits of either format , I think it fair to conclude that either vinyl or CD can sound pretty damn good with the right equipment in the right environment . Does that sound like a reasonable compromise ? [/quote] Of course it is - it's what a music lover should be saying, but - and there's always some one with a "but" - you then get the retort that "you can't compromise with facts/science, there has to be a "best" and I'm not stopping until......." etc. & the whole band starts circling the wagons again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1356020556' post='1905859'] Of course it is - it's what a music lover should be saying, but - and there's always some one with a "but" - you then get the retort that "you can't compromise with facts/science, there has to be a "best" and I'm not stopping until......." etc. & the whole band starts circling the wagons again. [/quote] No one has said you'd be wrong for preferring vinyl. The discussion has revolved around the relative merits of either medium in terms of scientific facts. You're obviously not interested in that discussion, and that's perfectly fine. I don't see the problem? EDIT: Also, like Si, i've had my mind changed on this forum, and I'm much better educated from reading these in depth discussions Edited December 20, 2012 by cheddatom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1356018459' post='1905804'] You really can't help yourself can you? Sorry if I haven't pandered to your superiority complex. [/quote] Or is that your inferiority complex? What was it other than "I like vinyl so there" you were bringing to the conversation anyway?? [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1356019002' post='1905817'] I wasn't aware that anyone had, just that it's different. What I can't abide is the train of thought of "Oh, they're still not agreeing with me, OK then - I'll throw another 400+ words at them until they do." I mean - even Spock was a man of few words! [/quote] Yup, thats all it was BS, bs to bs BS. Not meant to try and help. Obviously... As you were, carry on, yawn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumps Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I love carrots at the moment more than both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1356017847' post='1905791']...doesnt make any difference to me if they prefer wax cylinder.[/quote] Quick festive factoid: did y'all know that the first ever recording of Jingle Bells was recorded on a wax cylinder in 1898 as part of a Christmas medley entitled "Sleigh Ride Party" (god bless Wikipedia). You can listen to it here: [url="http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Edison_Male_Quartette/Voices_of_Christmas_Past/03_-_edison_male_quartette_-_sleigh_ride_party_jingle_bells_1898"]http://freemusicarch...ngle_bells_1898[/url] PS: sounds [i]waaay[/i] better on MP3!! Edited December 20, 2012 by Skol303 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I like pasrnips , they are superior to carrots in every measurable way.... Except flavour, but who counts that? Ruddy scientists.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 parsnips tend to have a more flowery texture than carrots in my opinion. They're also a lot less versatile. Carrots win hands down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1356019629' post='1905834'] Isn't it simply a case that [i]music is an art[/i], whereas [i]sound[/i] [i]is science[/i]? One highly subjective, the other measurably objective. The characteristics of sound and of different musical formats and playback devices can be described in scientific terms (specifically the laws of physics). So while science can't easily determine what sounds better - only your own ears can do that - it can determine what has the most potential to sound better, based on things like frequency range/response, etc, etc. At least I think that's the point people are trying to make here. More importantly, which is better: ice cream or custard? We all know it's custard, right? [/quote] Clotted Cream for &*^%s sake.... why can't you see that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1356020869' post='1905866'] What was it other than "I like vinyl so there" you were bringing to the conversation anyway?? Yup, thats all it was BS, bs to bs BS. Not meant to try and help.[/quote] I think - IIRC - that it started off with something about you're wrong to have spent so much on a system if the room is in isn't as perfect as I say it should be" (I paraphrase). You gave up trying to help when it became a science competition between you and others as to who knew the most facts.... that was a good few pages ago. Since almost all threads on here are a general consensus of opinion I fail to see why a simple opinion of "I value the perceived "warmth" of vinyl" - as it often described, should become a brain-washing session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Must say, I've never measured the frequency of clotted cream on my parsnips, must go and get the oscilloscope out right now. Igor!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The way I saw the argument was that Billybob* says they prefer A to B, but as B can technically be better than A, it might be that the reason for preferring A is erroneous and with a little more insight, from Trevor*, into why, Billybob might come out of it with a better listening experience than when he went in. Now then, Billybob doesn't care what Trevor has to say, as far as he's concerned he's right and adamant about it and would rather that Trevor just shut up. But Trevor feels as though he has more advice and perhaps someone will learn something and so is kindly trying to educate anyone interested. But Billybob thinks that Trevor just wants the final word and is determined to have the final word for himself by constantly popping up and accusing Trevor of trying to have the final word. Then it all goes in circles. [i](Names changed to protect the guilty)[/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1356021689' post='1905892']Then it all goes in circles[/quote] That's the one............... ....... as it goes I'm sat here wrapping other half's pressies while she's taking a nap - and I've got the (vinyl ) OST to "The Alamo" on the turntable - strangely - it's got [i]El Degüello [/i]on just now. Even though it's probably a fallacy that it was played at the time. My son's band had it for their intro music briefly - it wasn't appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1356021512' post='1905885'] I think - IIRC - that it started off with something about you're wrong to have spent so much on a system if the room is in isn't as perfect as I say it should be" (I paraphrase). You gave up trying to help when it became a science competition between you and others as to who knew the most facts.... that was a good few pages ago. Since almost all threads on here are a general consensus of opinion I fail to see why a simple opinion of "I value the perceived "warmth" of vinyl" - as it often described, should become a brain-washing session. [/quote] I said:- [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1355158248' post='1894777'] IMO anyone running a hifi worth more than £5000 in an untreated room is delusional.... Hell £2000 [/quote] I still think that. That really p***ed you off though. I dont suppose you'll ever forgive me How about you have a parsnip with some clotted cream, maybe that will help ? There was no science competition, there were some pointers as to how sampling works, and the processes that mix and mastering engineers go through for max volume which ruins playback (in everyone here's opinion I think) on any medium its then replayed on. There has subsequently been some interesting stuff about how the bones in our head may be affected by beating of frequencies above the threshold of hearing, which I reckon is a bit tenous to be honest, but I will look into it to see if I can find corroboration from other sources (I said I was fascinated by this stuff - I wasn't lying), since thats the first even remotely compelling argument I have heard for higher sampling rates other than the improved size of the transition band filter. It was all about helping. Shame you wouldnt give it the time of day. You are welcome to your opinion, but for many people the "warmth of vinyl" is just a really wishy washy term that doesnt actually mean a lot. One person's concept of warm is often very different from anothers: some consider this is something in the low end, others the top end, sometimes it is expressed as nothing to do with either - its all abit meaningless as a result. So there are other descriptions that can come into play. You dont seem to like them very much. No one is trying to brain wash anyone. Everyone is trying to illuminate and become illuminated. No one else but you started taking pot shots at anyone for their input. Hope you feel very 'clever' ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 There used to be a recording on Anne Rice's website that used to play automatically. It was a very, very old recording from the late 1800's I think. It took me a long time but I found out who it was singing and what the song was, it may have been a hymn, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was now. At the time I searched desperately for similar recordings but found nothing. It was hissy and spitty, crackly and poppy but it had amazing presence, proper heart swelling stuff that left me with wet eyes. About as far from hifi as you can get but it was lovely to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Vinyl......CD....Hmmmm [IMG]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c307/KevB64/fight.png[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1356022629' post='1905913']No one else but you started taking pot shots at anyone for their input. Hope you feel very 'clever' .....[/quote] Whereas the fact - which you just confirmed and repeated - that you describe someone as "delusional" is what? A useful contribution in your eyes. Damned from your own words I believe? Do you also deride 4x4 drivers if they don't live in the country too? Anything else you'd have on your list in your small world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1356021689' post='1905892'] Then it all goes in circles. [/quote] Well yes, hopefully we can all agree that both Vinyl and CDs go round in circles! Waiting for someone to contradict that now..... Edited December 20, 2012 by Count Bassy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='KevB' timestamp='1356022948' post='1905922'] Vinyl......CD....Hmmmm [/quote] For the side of CDs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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