Eden / GK / Markbass comparison

[brensabre79]

OK I'm thinking of changing my amp soon. Currently using a Genz Shuttle 6.0 which has been mostly a good amp for me (1st one went back faulty and was replaced, 2nd one had faulty valve but sorted now).

The reason I want to change is that I'm after a slightly more old school sound now. I find the Genz to be very clinical/HiFi, and a bit harsh in the top end and its just not what I'm after any more. I've been using a Sansamp BDI, MB compressore and the Amp emulator on my Zoom to get somewhere close but would like an amp that has a nice fat sound all on its own. Despite the above the Genz is still astoundingly clean until you push the preamp valve then it breaks up in a cold, harsh way. It also doesn't seem to have much in the very low bass frequencies - I'm after a big sound even at low volume...

Power wise the Genz is adequate, the limit light flashes on towards the end of a loud gig sometimes but never more than that, and to be honest I'm probably turned up a bit loud when it does. So I think 500 - 600w will be ample.

So I've had a look around and I think I have a shortlist, I was wondering if any of you had compared these, or indeed have other suggestions within my budget (c.£600) currently I think the Eden has it from what I've read. Its really difficult to find a store that stocks all of these so I'm hoping to narrow it down...

1. Eden WT550
2. GK MB Fusion
3. GK 700RBii
4. MarkBass Big Bang

What say you....?

Thanks for reading

[chris_b]

Definitely the Eden.

I'd also check out the WT800 before I made a decision.

[Clarky]

There's a WT550 for sale on BC at a bargain £400 ono, from South East too so you could check it out

[chris_b]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1350296497' post='1836838']
....I find the Genz to be very clinical/HiFi, and a bit harsh in the top end....
[/quote]

From what I've read the STL6 was the most clinical amp Genz made.

Their STL9 and the *.2 and MAX amps seem to be rated for their warmer and fuller tones.

[xgsjx]

I think you've got an awkward choice & if it was me, I'd try & get a go of each one or something similar from each manufacturer & try before buying.

[PlungerModerno]

GK MB fusion sounds Great - with tons of lows when clean, and plenty when breaking up . . .

Try one if you can (remember to dial out all the effects (contour, presence, deep) and EQ in some mids to taste - Channel B has some sweet warmth )

[Lozz196]

The GK MB Fusion is deceptive. It still sounds clinical and GK-like until in the mix, then the valves become apparent.

That said, I too prefer a warm old-school sound, and have found that my Markbass Little Mark Tube is very good at this. I got mine for £560 new - a very nice shop in Guildford price-matched for me.

[brensabre79]

Thanks guys, so definitely Eden, definitely MB fusion and almost definitely MarkBass.

I think the WT800 will be beyond my budget unfortunately.
Will check out the 550 on here though.

Cheers

[Musicman20]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1350297643' post='1836860']
From what I've read the STL6 was the most clinical amp Genz made.

Their STL9 and the *.2 and MAX amps seem to be rated for their warmer and fuller tones.
[/quote]

Agreed. Plus the Shuttle 6.0 was attenuated down low to not destroy the little Shuttle Cabs!

If you side by side say a Shuttle 6.0 to a 6.2, you will see quite a big difference!

Genz make the Streamliner...which might appeal?

TC RH750?

Markbass LM3?

From what I've heard about the GK 'tone', it really is quite bright, quite growly when you want it to be, and in the case of their new micros (MB500/800) BIGGGG down low and very bright. E.g. a mid-scoop but this an be easily dialed out.

[Dingus]

My vote would also be for the Eden. They have a hefty sound when you want them to , and have some really nice classic valve overtones in the sound. I have never liked the sound of any Genz Benz amp I have ever heard- despite the claims that some people make for them , to my ears they are just too clean and clinical and lacking in any kind of charm.

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1350300461' post='1836907']
Thanks guys, so definitely Eden, definitely MB fusion and almost definitely MarkBass.

I think the WT800 will be beyond my budget unfortunately.
Will check out the 550 on here though.

Cheers
[/quote]

Let you ears decide. I'd say they'll all have their strengths.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1350301287' post='1836924']
....
From what I've heard about the GK 'tone', it really is quite bright, quite growly when you want it to be, and in the case of their new micros (MB500/800) BIGGGG down low and very bright. E.g. a mid-scoop but this an be easily dialed out.
[/quote]

Yup. If you leave contour fully off and bring the mids forward a little (about 10,2,3 and 10 with Treble, Hi Mid, Lo Mid and Bass respectively as a rough example) you can get a pretty creamy, even tone.

Roll off some tone on the bass, foam mute, cut all the treble on the EQ and you've got thunder. Especially if you are on channel B with some saturation .

[brensabre79]

Thanks.
I've always been absolutely useless at deciding upon gear in a shop. You can't crank it to gig levels with a full band blazing away so you just have to try and judge how it will behave based on very low volume, no accompaniment in an acoustically unfamiliar room. I'm sure all these amps are great, and each have their own character, but I can't try them side by side due to different stockists.

So all input is appreciated. Looks like most of you agree with me about the Genz and its the right way to go. I'm leaning toward the Eden right now or the Fusion. Anybody A/B'd these two?
Edit for typo as usual
Cheers

Edited October 15, 2012 by brensabre79

[xgsjx]

MarkBass gets my vote.

When's the next bass bash down your way? Bound to be a few you could A/B at one, or go see some local bands & see who has wha you like the sound of.

[chrismuzz]

Markbass stuff is clean and very smooth, unless you go for the F1, F500, or the 800w ones when they're a bit more upper midrange present.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1350335278' post='1837587']
Markbass stuff is clean and very smooth, unless you go for the F1, F500, or the 800w ones when they're a bit more upper midrange present.
[/quote]

The Tube 500, which I have, dirties/thickens up the sound a fair bit too. I like an old-school Ampeg/Fender tone, and the Tube 500 is good at this.

[PTB]

I personally wouldn't describe G-K or MarkBass as old school. I would suggest a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 which is old school to my ears.

Have a look for Ed Friedland's video review on YouTube & see if it's what you are looking for.

[Musicman20]

I think the Markbass LM2/3 got described as a clean tube amp tone due to the fact it does sound quite 'spongey' in the mids. Its a very warm even tone.

I wouldn't describe it as old school or modern, its the 'Markbass' tone to me. Nice and even. I think they make good amps, and some of their cabs are brilliant. However, their recent lineup of amps is bizarre in my opinion...(no F1/500?!). I still think the LM3 is their best amp, along with the F500 which you can't buy now.

If they added the semi parametric mids to the Big Bang it would have been a much better amp. The one thing that Markbass missed a trick on is the low mid freq. setting....its too high to get that really cool low mid kick.

The Streamliner is VERY smooth, fat, and warm. I don't find it flubby, but then again I am using it with cabinets that have a built in mid tone profile to them. I also mainly use Musicman basses which are incredibly flexible no matter what amp you use.

I personally really like it, and like a lot of amps, the slight mid dip with all the controls at 12 can be ironed out in seconds. This modern obsession with 'flat at 12' wasn't really a concern when they made amps which the Streamliner is taking influence off.

The Streamliner does sound incredibly like a tube amp to me. It is ultra clean as well, if you need it to be. If you want it dirty, it will do that as well.

Its almost like taking your bass sound and coating it in golden syrup. The response has some give, and the high end treble is fantastic, (brilliant treble control).

It is also the loudest micro I've tried.

[brensabre79]

I think the Big Bang is the model to replace the discontinued F1/500s. I also think its a bit lacking in features, a semi-parametric mid is really useful for getting rid of unpleasant resonances in a room.

The Streamliner would be a strong contender had I not had quite so many issues with my Shuttle in the early days, that only has one valve not 3 and I've replaced the valve in my shuttle 3 times in a year. Another reason the rugged reputation of the Eden appeals to me actually...

I guess I should try and be more specific about the sound I'm after. The thing is I like a bit of clank, but the Shuttle makes it sound like quite unpleasant fret noise, wheras even my Roland cube does a much better job of warming it up. Underneath the 'clank' I also like to hear a substantial amount of low low bass, again the shuttle lacks a bit here and I find myself boosting LF everywhere (Bass, Sansamp, Amp) throughout a gig but it just ends up being uncontrolled and unwieldy. All that, and with some warm mids to cut through the band!

The closest amp I've tried to the sound I'm looking for was an old Sound City 50 watt all-valve head I used a while ago, but it was too quiet unless driven into to distortion, quite heavy, very unreliable and not mine. What I'd like, in an ideal world, is around 600 watts of [i]that[/i] sound in a robust and portable package

I'm all for compromise, so out of the available micro-heads I was wondering what would get me somewhere near that...?

Cheers
B

[BassBunny]

As they say "What's source for the Goose etc.".
I've been using Markbass analogue amps, (LMII and SA450), fore years, as well as trying just about everything on the market. I've got an Eden WT550 and a MarkBass SA450 at the moment. I've had TC and Genz and have tried the GK's and Big Bang.
Eden for ME. Very similar to MarkBass BUT bags more "welly" due to the heavy transformer and tube front end.
Loved the others but far too clinical for me due to the Class D Power Amp section. I've come to the conclusion I like analogue Amps.
BUT what works for me, might not work for you.
You really need to hear them yourself.

[Musicman20]

I realise this might be a touchy area, but classing Class D as clinical or without fullness wouldn't be the way to judge it.

Some Class D amps are voiced to be very clean and super tight in the low end. Some are not. It has nothing to do with the Class.

The RH450 for example is Class D and due to its design sounds closer to more traditional amp. The Genz Streamliner is Class D and absolutely slams in the low end, and has serious volume on tap.

I owned a big heavy Trace GP12400SMX for over ten years. It was great, but you don't need that weight to achieve a similar tone. My Class D Shuttlemax 9.2 (FET Channel) sounds very similar and is louder/has better EQ and is more reliable, (touch wood).

[JTUK]

Eden of yesteryear would have been the class act amongst that lot, IMO...
Not sure about the current crop... maybe they make them in the Pacific these days..???

[brensabre79]

Yes I think the new ones are made in China, like most of them these days.

[BassBunny]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1350392123' post='1838143']
I realise this might be a touchy area, but classing Class D as clinical or without fullness wouldn't be the way to judge it.

Some Class D amps are voiced to be very clean and super tight in the low end. Some are not. It has nothing to do with the Class.

The RH450 for example is Class D and due to its design sounds closer to more traditional amp. The Genz Streamliner is Class D and absolutely slams in the low end, and has serious volume on tap.

I owned a big heavy Trace GP12400SMX for over ten years. It was great, but you don't need that weight to achieve a similar tone. My Class D Shuttlemax 9.2 (FET Channel) sounds very similar and is louder/has better EQ and is more reliable, (touch wood).
[/quote]
Well put and probably the wrong way to put it on my behalf.
The one thing i noticed with both the Eden and MarkBass is that you set them flat, plug in and it's pretty much there, FOR ME. Never had that with a Class D power section.

Edited October 16, 2012 by BassBunny

[BassBunny]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1350394481' post='1838191']
Yes I think the new ones are made in China, like most of them these days.
[/quote]
Probably the new micro stuff and certainly the WTDI pedal is, (as i've got one), but my WT550 was made in the US in April of last year.
You might find the GK stuff is as well.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='BassBunny' timestamp='1350395710' post='1838216']
Well put and probably the wrong way to put it on my behalf.
The one thing i noticed with both the Eden and MarkBass is that you set them flat, plug in and it's pretty much there, FOR ME. Never had that with a Class D power section.
[/quote]

Agreed, some definitely won't give you that!