connecting cabs?????

[highwayone]

Just bought a new head but it only has one speaker output whereas my old head had two. I am currently using two cabs occasionally so wanted some advice on connecting them. Do I run the head into one then connect that cab to the other??? Your help would be appreciated

[charic]

Do the cabs have outputs? If so you can daisy chain them like you described.

[GazzBass]

[quote name='highwayone' timestamp='1345213217' post='1775081']
Just bought a new head but it only has one speaker output whereas my old head had two. I am currently using two cabs occasionally so wanted some advice on connecting them. Do I run the head into one then connect that cab to the other??? Your help would be appreciated
[/quote] That I believe is quite often the preferred option regardless of the number of outputs you have? Obviously there is the Ohms to consider, will be interesting to see what the "experts" say? Almost certainly been covered somewhere on here....and the type of output sockets : Jacks, etc!

GazzBass

[flyfisher]

Electrically, it makes no difference if the head has one or two output sockets (unless it's stereo!) as the two sockets are wired in parallel anyway.

With only a single output socket then you'll have to 'daisy-chain' the two cabs, but that's fine.

All the usual rules about ohms and wattage ratings still apply.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1345214305' post='1775107']
Electrically, it makes no difference if the head has one or two output sockets (unless it's stereo!) as the two sockets are wired in parallel anyway.

With only a single output socket then you'll have to 'daisy-chain' the two cabs, but that's fine.

All the usual rules about ohms and wattage ratings still apply.
[/quote]

+1

The only advantage of using x2 outputs from an amp (scenario A ) instead of daisy-chaining the 2nd cab from the 1st (scenario B ) is that in B if the lead connecting the amp to cab 1 fails then you have no signal (not good mid gig), however in A, you still have one cab functioning if the same lead were to fail to one of the cabs (you could then try and sort the lead between sets or after the gig).

<edited for emoticon faff>

Edited August 17, 2012 by warwickhunt

[chris_b]

Buy good leads and look after them and they won't fail.

If you can't daisy chain your cabs you could get a split lead made up. I'm sure OBBM could provide a lead for any situation.

[GazzBass]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1345217465' post='1775161']
Buy good leads and look after them and they won't fail.

If you can't daisy chain your cabs you could get a split lead made up. I'm sure OBBM could provide a lead for any situation.
[/quote]

All very true! however I'm still waiting for the "technical" reason why daisy-chain is so often prefered.... as I can't remember (Doh...its an age thing???) N/B Warwickhunt has a point; post soundcheck when a stage is shifted around and some "Oaf" shifts your rig.......it happened to me!

GazzBass

[chris_b]

There is no "technical" reason. I've got short leads so I daisy chain. If you've got long leads and the right sockets either way is fine.

I also have a lead that is long enough to hang any "oafs" who move my gear.

[aldude]

[quote name='GazzBass' timestamp='1345218262' post='1775173']


All very true! however I'm still waiting for the "technical" reason why daisy-chain is so often prefered.... as I can't remember (Doh...its an age thing???) N/B Warwickhunt has a point; post soundcheck when a stage is shifted around and some "Oaf" shifts your rig.......it happened to me!

GazzBass
[/quote]

I think the opposite is true, and separate leads are preferred. This is because of the failing issue, as said above, also so that one cable (from the head) does not need to handle the power for two cabs, though if thee leads are good it's doubtful that it makes any difference really.

[flyfisher]

+1

The advantages might be mainly theoretical but separately connected cabs are the better configuration, for the reasons cited above.

If the OP's cabs don't have two connectors to facilitate daisy-chaining then a simple Y-cable adapter at the single amp output socket will do the trick.

[highwayone]

[IMG]http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq104/karlosfandango1/83BF003D-988E-491F-AC13-431D7CD905A1-936-00000086AB5B5A8C.jpg[/IMG]
This is the back of my amp, it's a trace elliot. Could I use both the two output sockets and connect to two separate cabs?
[IMG]http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq104/karlosfandango1/962CA09D-8F3E-44D5-8344-CE6139552C3E-936-00000086A7C5352E.jpg[/IMG]
This is the back of one of the cabs. Hope this may help! Thanks for all the info.

[aldude]

Yes that's two separate speaker outputs. Use one speakon lead and one jack lead for the two cabs... though make sure you use a jack speaker lead and not an instrument lead, or you will probably fry something!

[JTUK]

Of course, with 2 cabs...you need to know both cabs are working. If you know the system, you'll likely hear the power/output being down, but if you don't know, then you might not realise one cab isn't functioning..
so devise a simple test here as well.

[lollington]

Looks like XLR output, not Speakon(?) Suppose you could use both outputs if you wanted, so long as combined load isn't below 4 ohms. Like aldude suggests, don't use a mic cable. Get hold of an XLR speaker cable.

[flyfisher]

I've never seen XLRs used for speaker connections before (except for powered cabs) - is this just a Trace thing?

I thought it was bad enough for DMX lighting to use XLRs, never mind speaker cabs as well - one type of connector, three totally different cable requirements. A recipe for confusion or what?

[Musky]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1345237871' post='1775540']
I've never seen XLRs used for speaker connections before (except for powered cabs) - is this just a Trace thing?

I thought it was bad enough for DMX lighting to use XLRs, never mind speaker cabs as well - one type of connector, three totally different cable requirements. A recipe for confusion or what?
[/quote]
Not so much a Trace thing as a late 80s/early nineties thing. Laney (and most likely other manufacturers) were using XLRs as well, and they were pretty common for PA's at the time. Used for the same main reason as Speakons nowadays - you can't accidentally use a guitar lead. I suppose the fact that you might have been able to use a mic lead is why the Speakon took off!

[obbm]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1345241243' post='1775602']
Not so much a Trace thing as a late 80s/early nineties thing. Laney (and most likely other manufacturers) were using XLRs as well, and they were pretty common for PA's at the time. Used for the same main reason as Speakons nowadays - you can't accidentally use a guitar lead. I suppose the fact that you might have been able to use a mic lead is why the Speakon took off!
[/quote]

Some 1960s VOX cabs used XLRs. Our guitarist had a T60 cab with one in 1965.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1345237871' post='1775540']
I've never seen XLRs used for speaker connections before (except for powered cabs) - is this just a Trace thing?
[/quote]

Glockenklang and iirc Hughes & Kettner used XLR for outputs on their amps (along with TE and others I am sure); in theory they are better than 1/4" jacks as they are more secure and have a greater contact area between the male and female parts of the pins, certainly far superior contact than 1/4" jacks. The caveat being that you need to use proper speaker cable and not just a mic lead but that is exactly the same with a 1/4" jack guitar lead.

[flyfisher]

Interesting. I certainly agree about the electrical and physical superiority of XLR connectors over jacks so I suppose that could be an understandable reason, in isolation, for using them in these different applications. But it can lead to unfortunate confusion when cabling up a whole stage full of gear. Still, speakon connectors seem to be gradually catching on, so that's helpful.

I use one of those hand-held label-printing machines to label special function cables (e.g. DMX) and our PA only has two passive monitors requiring a jack-jack speaker cable, all the other cabs are powered so standards XLRs do the job.

Even so, I still have to resist offers of 'help' from a couple of our band who will just plug any old cable into any old socket where it will fit!

[tauzero]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1345222278' post='1775245']
The advantages might be mainly theoretical but separately connected cabs are the better configuration, for the reasons cited above.
[/quote]

And also because the signal to each speaker only passes through two plug-to-socket connections, rather than one going through two and the other through four. As well as being possible points of failure (as above), they're also likely to be points of higher resistance.

[Big_Stu]

My Hiwatt has an after market XLR, that was done so that they could run the output straight to the sound desk desk without having to mic up cabs. At least on the OP's pics it's clearly marked what it's for.

[4 Strings]

So, in conclusion; technically they are equal (ie both are parallel) and will make no difference to amp or speaker which way you connect. However, 2 separate leads give the marginal bonuses of security during a single lead failure, and fewer connections for the signal to pass to the second cab.

Perhaps some modern micro amps are saving space with one output, or saving pennies. Your Trace gave both, just used different sockets for each.

For the OP's amp, just get a speaker lead with XLRs and one with jacks and you can run separate leads. Can tie wrap them together so everyone knows they aren't mic leads etc.

Note to Stu, presumably the additional XLR on the back of your Hiwatt is not passing the speaker signal as taking that to any sound desk will melt it. (One reason for using different plug/sockets for different purposes).

I think the XLRs were popular then as pas were becoming big, 'professional' things and used XLRs, jacks were for small 'amateur gear'. Alembic and Jaydee even put them on their basses.

When did we stop calling XLRs 'Cannons'?

Edited August 23, 2012 by 4 Strings

[highwayone]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1345711565' post='1780699']
So, in conclusion; technically they are equal (ie both are parallel) and will make no difference to amp or speaker which way you connect. However, 2 separate leads give the marginal bonuses of security during a single lead failure, and fewer connections for the signal to pass to the second cab.

Perhaps some modern micro amps are saving space with one output, or saving pennies. Your Trace gave both, just used different sockets for each.

[b]For the OP's amp, just get a speaker lead with XLRs and one with jacks and you can run separate leads. Can tie wrap them together so everyone knows they aren't mic leads etc.[/b]

Note to Stu, presumably the additional XLR on the back of your Hiwatt is not passing the speaker signal as taking that to any sound desk will melt it. (One reason for using different plug/sockets for different purposes).

I think the XLRs were popular then as pas were becoming big, 'professional' things and used XLRs, jacks were for small 'amateur gear'. Alembic and Jaydee even put them on their basses.

When did we stop calling XLRs 'Cannons'?
[/quote]

I've gone with that option! Bought two speaker cables, one XLR and one jack and connected separately. Cheers everyone for there help on this.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1345711565' post='1780699']
Note to Stu, presumably the additional XLR on the back of your Hiwatt is not passing the speaker signal as taking that to any sound desk will melt it. (One reason for using different plug/sockets for different purposes).[/quote]

Yeah, my bad wording, not the speaker signal. I was told by one of the band & one of the crew that it was to try to reduce the chances of feedback rather than micing up cabs due to the incredible volume of their later gigs. Apparently a bit of chorus was added as it went thru the desk back to the PA.

[stingrayPete1977]

I have had to make up a few Speakon to jack leads so i can use my heads with other peoples cabs either at gigs where we are sharing or at various rehearsal places, also the cable can be reversed so my Genz cabs can be used with someone else's head if it's me lending the cab or if my head went tits up!

Edited August 23, 2012 by stingrayPete1977