xilddx Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Jazzneck' timestamp='1342896881' post='1742594'] If it's a freebee gig then the best technique is this: [attachment=113769:USA 2007 031.JPG] The white hat marked "TIPS" at the front of the stage is for TIPS for the band! That night the band only played for a free meal and a few beers; their money came from the tips put into the hat. I played three numbers with them and was given U$25 out of the hat for the privilege of playing a club on Beale Street whilst on holiday - not bad eh? It is a technique that one of the bands I play in is considering doing but it'll probably go down like a concrete parachute in the UK. So........... you'se can "play for free" as far as the pub is concerned but you take your own risk on covering expenses whilst you have your fun - it's up to the punters at the end of the day but it certainly makes you tighten up and work hard. [/quote] I wouldn't even consider putting a hat out for an originals band. What sort of message does that send out? We should be proud, not act like buskers, I doubt you'd get much respect or admiration for that. Let's face it, people see music before they hear it. You have to capitalise on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1342898361' post='1742619'] it started as a general question.... "anyone else here totally pissed off with musicians who play for free?" no foot stamping, toy throwing, just a Q on the subject of 'gettin paid' got my answer folks and seems i'm in the minority, no probs, i'll get over it [/quote] Well it's a daft question then isn't it. If you aren't going to put some effort into thinking about under what circumstances, be totally pissed off anyway (which I assume you are given your behaviour in this thread), and not accept different thinking, why should we bother educating you? I don't know what music you play, or what you earn from it, but it sounds like you think it's other musicians' fault you don't earn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzneck Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1342898613' post='1742623'] I wouldn't even consider putting a hat out for an originals band. What sort of message does that send out? We should be proud, not act like buskers, I doubt you'd get much respect or admiration for that. Let's face it, people see music before they hear it. You have to capitalise on that. [/quote] Woah there a minute - and I'm not starting an argument here but I am proud to be fortunate enough to be able to play a bit and entertain people with bands but I'm not too proud to busk on my own for fun if I feel like it either. Please explain "people see music before they hear it" - I thought, obviously incorrectly, that music is an aural art form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 i play lots of different types of music with lots of different bands and i'm expected to play more and more for free, which is a problem, as i can't afford to loose money, expenses would be good. again i'm surprised that musos are happy to play for free when punters are paying to hear them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eljay Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Spike Vincent' timestamp='1342898263' post='1742613'] Never too old for that....Too married,maybe,but never too old... [/quote] Haha, too attached to my Sig Other, and therefore... Too TIRED (Demanding Lady, she is!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 If your doing covers with any degree of proficiency then IMO you should be paid. My covers band never plays for free. Even when we've done benefits, we've been given enough to cover our expenses and been fed and watered for the evening. We played a house party last weekend and got paid for that. When it comes to original music then the situation is a lot more flexible. It's a hobby, it's art, it's promotion etc. It's up to each musician/band to decide for themselves under which circumstances they'll play for free and when they expect to be paid. What I will say is that if you are entertaining the only reason to play for free is because you want to. Apart from a handful of gigs during our first year in existence The Terrortones have always received something towards our expenses at the very least when we play. Even if the money we are getting isn't going to completely cover the costs of doing the gig we know that we'll be able to sell enough CDs, T-shirts and other merch to make up the shortfall. We are able to do this because we know that simply being musically accomplished is only half the story, and we put on one hell of a show when we play, which in turn helps us to sell the merch afterwards and almost always either gets us asked back for another gig. In fact nearly every gig that we have played has resulted in either a repeat booking (for more money as often as not) or has opened the door to a booking elsewhere - frequently both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1342900644' post='1742647'] If your doing covers with any degree of proficiency then IMO you should be paid. My covers band never plays for free. Even when we've done benefits, we've been given enough to cover our expenses and been fed and watered for the evening. We played a house party last weekend and got paid for that. When it comes to original music then the situation is a lot more flexible. It's a hobby, it's art, it's promotion etc. It's up to each musician/band to decide for themselves under which circumstances they'll play for free and when they expect to be paid. What I will say is that if you are entertaining the only reason to play for free is because you want to. Apart from a handful of gigs during our first year in existence The Terrortones have always received something towards our expenses at the very least when we play. Even if the money we are getting isn't going to completely cover the costs of doing the gig we know that we'll be able to sell enough CDs, T-shirts and other merch to make up the shortfall. We are able to do this because we know that simply being musically accomplished is only half the story, and we put on one hell of a show when we play, which in turn helps us to sell the merch afterwards and almost always either gets us asked back for another gig. In fact nearly every gig that we have played has resulted in either a repeat booking (for more money as often as not) or has opened the door to a booking elsewhere - frequently both! [/quote] i never thought of it as covers or originals, i would guess most cover bands gigs are free admission and they still manage to find cash to pay the bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1342896716' post='1742591'] Can the OP please make it clear that he's talking about originals bands here? [/quote] [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1342898323' post='1742616'] Exactly. If I'm just starting gigging my originals band, and we can't bring in a beer chugging following, why would I want to be paid?!? I'm so grateful to the venue or promoter for letting the band play in the first place. When we can bring in twenty people who generate £400 of pre-profit revenue for the venue, then I MIGHT expect £50 or something for the band, possibly. [/quote]What's the difference? Many here have said they do it for fun...Covers! Originals! What's the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1342899950' post='1742639'] i play lots of different types of music with lots of different bands and i'm expected to play more and more for free, which is a problem, as i can't afford to loose money, expenses would be good. again i'm surprised that musos are happy to play for free when punters are paying to hear them? [/quote] At what point does you music have a commercial value? Just because you play an instrument does that mean you should get a professional wage? If your hobby is photography are your photos worth anything? the answer is only if people want to buy them, It is same with bands if you can't pull in the punters then you are indulging you hobby and it is not unusual to have to pay to indulge in your hobby no mater how good you are. I personally admire people who play for artistic reasons rather than cash because they keep music fresh and alive. Bands that make money often put allot of time, money and effort into networking, publicity and promotion. They tailor their set to so that for maximum impact to the target audience. They developed the soft skills needed to flourish in an commercial environment. If you ask me should people like that be paid my answer would be a resounding yes. Some bands\Musicians just want to turn up and play what they want without putting the effort into the business side, if you ask me should they be paid I would say it depends. If you are not making money from your gigs you need to ask yourself why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eljay Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Hot topic. Don't mean to get it any hotter, but there are bands that are making millions of dollars/pounds who IMO are not worthy musicians, and I don't like their Music! Which means nothing, just my tastes. Not trying to judge anything! Then- there are a number of Jazz musicians, and e.g Classical guitarists who are accomplished to the highest degree and make next to nothing- Market value. I used to purchase CD's on the cheap by winners of Laureate Guitar Contests, absolutely stunning music, but record sales??? Nope, try Green Day or some such for the millions of records sold, Yes, musicians should be paid, even well-paid gigs amount to little considering cost of instruments 1000's of hours practicing to reach proficiency (You should anyway!) travel, etc. Not a perfect world, and the arts-tough nut. Went with a Dancer once upon a time, she was beautifully trained, ballet et al, gigs? Not much. The analogy to photography is true, same with writers, actors, etc. Many are called few chosen IOW-NOT many gigs to be had. Don't know about Britain, actually tying to get some work there myself (touring-for pay ) but here in a big, hot-shot city like Los Angeles- few gigs to be had that pay a fair amount. Edited July 21, 2012 by Eljay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1342899007' post='1742628'] Well it's a daft question then isn't it. If you aren't going to put some effort into thinking about under what circumstances, be totally pissed off anyway (which I assume you are given your behaviour in this thread), and not accept different thinking, why should we bother educating you? I don't know what music you play, or what you earn from it, but it sounds like you think it's other musicians' fault you don't earn more. [/quote] Careful, you'll start getting bombarded with PMs if you question his viewpoint; I've had a dozen or so in the past three hours... though apparently you're expected to be contrary. IME it's a long hard slog for an originals band to get paid a worthwhile amount to gig; depends as much on location & available venues as it does the bands' ability; and then if you have to travel to get decent £ then it has to be even higher to make worthwhile... though I'm aware I'm stating the obvious there. Edited July 21, 2012 by Big_Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1342903432' post='1742698'] Careful, you'll start getting bombarded with PMs if you question his viewpoint; I've had a dozen or so in the past three hours... though apparently you're expected to be contrary. [b]IME it's a long hard slog for an originals band to get paid a worthwhile amount to gig; depends as much on location & available venues as it does the bands' ability; and then if you have to travel to get decent £ then it has to be even higher to make worthwhile... though I'm aware I'm stating the obvious there.[/b] [/quote] Clearly not obvious to the Slow Blues in E geezer though is it. Still, it's got to be hard for a blues band I suppose, otherwise you've got f*** all to sing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 If you hate the time you spend playing so much you need compensating, why would you expect people listening to feel any different about it? I get paid to load all my amps and cabs in and out if I'm lucky, thats the bit that sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) This thread is nuts, assuming we take playing for charity out if the mix, then anyone who plays for free is getting something out of it, that may simply be the fun of playing live as a hobby or a greater plan such as exposure. If someone is exploiting bands by making money out of them Playing for free that is a different issue How about saying all those involved in AmDram should get paid? Edited July 21, 2012 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1342905730' post='1742715'] This thread is nuts, assuming we take playing for charity out if the mix, then anyone who plays for free is getting something out of it, that may simply be the fun of playing live as a hobby or a greater plan such as exposure. If someone is exploiting bands by making money out of them Playing for free that is a different issue How about saying all those involved in AmDram should get paid? [/quote] I believe Am Dram players do get paid more often than not, perhaps some Equity arrangement or something? Perhaps Seashell can advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fealey Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 surely if you're good enough, (and I'm sure you are) then you'll be in function bands where you get good wedge. (If money's what you're after, then playing other peoples' music is where it's generally at) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1342905897' post='1742716'] I believe Am Dram players do get paid more often than not, perhaps some Equity arrangement or something? Perhaps Seashell can advise. [/quote] in my experience am dram players dont get paid to perform as a rule however if the company is lacking a key person i.e. a leading man then maybe they might encourage someone to step into the role, however having done a lot of am dram and youth theatre stuff as a musician i get paid at least expenses for the shows depending on the budget for the show the pay can be quite lucrative which is far from the norm as apart from the theatre staff nobody else gets paid normally (director, choreographer, stage manager, stage crew ect...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1342907137' post='1742727'] in my experience am dram players dont get paid to perform as a rule however if the company is lacking a key person i.e. a leading man then maybe they might encourage someone to step into the role, however having done a lot of am dram and youth theatre stuff as a musician i get paid at least expenses for the shows depending on the budget for the show the pay can be quite lucrative which is far from the norm as apart from the theatre staff nobody else gets paid normally (director, choreographer, stage manager, stage crew ect...) [/quote] Thanks for that clarification mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 no worries mate something I know about so glad to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1342875961' post='1742206'] I'm more pissed off with people who think they can tell others what they should do in there spare time. [/quote] Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1342908370' post='1742737'] Bingo. [/quote] Bingo? What? as in ............. ........ or as a suggestion to make money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1342909016' post='1742744'] or as a suggestion to make money? [/quote] Tbf my Nan seems to do pretty well from it i'm sure she's conning the rest of the old people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I've done both sides of this argument (cover/function bands and originals), and only took the covers/function work because they were paid gigs - often very well. My original bands have never made anywhere near as much money, but I'd rather do that than Disco Inferno for the 600th time. Ultimately it's a personal choice - if there's money to be had then yes, I'd quite like some, but I think it's unrealistic (at best) to expect a venue to fund my indulgence in quirky prog/hard rock. I don't do covers for free because it's not something that I'd enjoy doing as a hobby - and that makes it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1342898361' post='1742619'] it started as a general question.... "anyone else here totally pissed off with musicians who play for free?" no foot stamping, toy throwing, just a Q on the subject of 'gettin paid' got my answer folks and seems i'm in the minority, no probs, i'll get over it [/quote] Fair enough , sometimes you need to duck on here when asking a genuine question, no one knows at the outset if you are questioning your own viewpoint or are not open to anyone seeing it differently Hope you find a more lucrative path soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1342873279' post='1742144'] anyone else here totally pissed off with musicians who play for free? [/quote] loads of people do lots of things for free - i particularly disapprove of the recent working practice culture which has forced itself on us where young graduates looking for work are expected now to be volunteering to work for free for a limited short period to demonstrate to a potential employer that they are worth taking on full time whilst i have had several jobs and have formal qualifications in things which i now find impossible to find employment in, it is a case of realising where you best talents lie - for me personally that is playing the bass and making things look pretty (aka graphic design) - a fair return for your efforts and skills is not unreasonable but very occasionally there will be exceptions where it is done as a total freebie- i have played one gig for free this year as it was a local weekender fundraiser event and i occasionally do some design work for free but only for very good friends or charity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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