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daveparker123

Bass rigs-the bigger the better in my experience.

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Whilst an 8x10 (or two) looks the part on stage, there's cabs of much smaller design that can beat it in every department. In sound quality, low end, dispersion, weight & portability.

And Trouser flapping! B)

Edited by xgsjx

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In 45 years of playing I have never come across a small cabinet or combo that has the sound quality, punch, low end and dispersion of an 8x10 or two or a stack or two of 4x12s and I believe that there was a debate on here not so long ago about getting an 8x10 in a Corsa. An 8x10 also has the same or smaller footprint than a combo or small cab so no problem on small stages.

As far as upsetting the sound guy, I'd rather not be miked or D.I.ed and have a decent sound out front instead of the bassy mush that sound guys seem to think you should have.

When the sound engineer went up to John Entwhistle and apologized that the bass was a bit trebley that night, John replied in his gruff voice, 'It's meant to be trebley'.

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I think you need a rig capable of coping with the stage. If you have proper side fills and monitors and the mixes, then you can scale the rig down to a degree
but I take 550w onto stages that are around 50' x 16 and expect to have to use it quite powerfully. If I get a generous mix of bass in the monitors then that is a bonus
but I prepare not to.

I have often thought ..recently..about a larger rig for those few larger stages, but then I expect the P.A spec to be ramped up as well and I would still need to transport it.
I think I could put togther a 1000 or near enough by slaving another set of cabs that I could transport so that is the practical way I would go..

If I had a 610 ..which I would love..then I would use it once or twice a year and it is a lot of money to tie up for that...and i still have to move//store it.

But sure... you need to fill the stage and the band needs to hear it..and if you don't use the full beans, then that is what the volume is for...
Far better that way than strangle the amp struggling to get any useable level.....

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[quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1336948721' post='1653213']
In 45 years of playing I have never come across a small cabinet or combo that has the sound quality, punch, low end and [b]dispersion [/b]of an 8x10 or two or a stack or two of 4x12s
[/quote]

Dispersion on 8x10s and square 4x12s (or two staggered ones side by side) is rubbish. Smaller is better for dispersion, always, unless you want to reduce it (which is useful in various circumstances, but not when it comes to hearing yourself).

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[quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1336949732' post='1653227']
The problem there is that small = not very far, loud or low IMO and IME.
[/quote]

If the speaker can handle it, more power sorts that. Can move more air with a current 15 than the original SVT 8x10, just need a bit more power to do it. Things have moved on. SVT 8x10s don't go very low at all.

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[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1336936629' post='1653011']
You'll need a bigger car.


[/quote]

Buy the cab and get the step ladder thrown in for FREE!

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[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1336951254' post='1653246']
Buy the cab and get the step-ladder thrown in for FREE!
[/quote]

I'm up for that step-ladder. I don't get on with my [i]real [/i]ladder.

Edited by discreet

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Horses for courses. Different strokes for different folks.

Automotive analogy:
SVT 810 = Chevy 350 small block
Some lightweight neo box = 1.4 turbo-supercharged 4-pot

Weak analogy. Sorry, someone else can expand it into reason i'm sure.

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This is the same forum where people like to spout off about guitarists who don't want to be parted from their Marshall half-stacks, right?

Am I the only one here to sense a touch of irony?


Here's the thing - most modern professional players just don't do this sort of thing. As several people have already pointed out modern equipment is smaller, massively lighter and every bit as loud (GB STL 900 + 2xVanderkley 112 MNT = approx 1000w). How anyone can justify more than that in strict musical terms escapes me.

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I wonder how many of those rubbishing the experience of using a really big cab have actually owned and gigged one.

I have owned and gigged quality 4x10's (SWR and Schroeder). Yet these do not come close to the experience of gigging with my new 8x10.

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[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1336974513' post='1653300']
I wonder how many of those rubbishing the experience of using a really big cab have actually owned and gigged one.

I have owned and gigged quality 4x10's (SWR and Schroeder). Yet these do not come close to the experience of gigging with my new 8x10.
[/quote]

Quite. I`ve played some very large stages, and the sound has always been better for me - but not louder - when I`ve been using a supplied SVT810 rather than using quality supplied smaller rigs.

The last one I did was using an Aguilar rig. Great sound FOH, great sound in front of the amp, but move anywhere on stage away from the amp (as in perform, cos that`s what we do) and could hear nothing of the bass, only the drums (and guitars, if moving in front of their amps).

Contrast to when I`ve used an Ampeg SVT810 - no matter where I was on stage there was bass presence, even standing right in front of the drums. Maybe to do with the height, maybe to do with monitoring, but to my non-technical mind, I just think there`s more speakers going, so the depth of sound is better, giving me more chance to hear it.

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[quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1336948721' post='1653213']
In 45 years of playing I have never come across a small cabinet or combo that has the sound quality, punch, low end and dispersion of an 8x10 or two or a stack or two of 4x12s and I believe that there was a debate on here not so long ago about getting an 8x10 in a Corsa. An 8x10 also has the same or smaller footprint than a combo or small cab so no problem on small stages.

As far as upsetting the sound guy, I'd rather not be miked or D.I.ed and have a decent sound out front instead of the bassy mush that sound guys seem to think you should have.

When the sound engineer went up to John Entwhistle and apologized that the bass was a bit trebley that night, John replied in his gruff voice, 'It's meant to be trebley'.
[/quote]
Here here. Perhaps I'm not just a selfish ******************** after all Phil!

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The problem seems to be IMO, many (not all) of the people who are favouring combos over bigger rigs keep talking about volume. I could buy a 100 watt combo and crank it to 10 but it would still sound feable, and sh*t!

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[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1336974300' post='1653298']
This is the same forum where people like to spout off about guitarists who don't want to be parted from their Marshall half-stacks, right?

Am I the only one here to sense a touch of irony?


Here's the thing - most modern professional players just don't do this sort of thing. As several people have already pointed out modern equipment is smaller, massively lighter and every bit as loud (GB STL 900 + 2xVanderkley 112 MNT = approx 1000w). How anyone can justify more than that in strict musical terms escapes me.
[/quote]

hmmm..I'd like to see ..and hear..you try to get 1000watts of bass out of 2x112's without the cones flying across the room.

I'll use a 550w into 4ohms of 2x112 and the sound just isn't all there on a decent 50x16 ft stage. Depending on the bias of the cabs, you'll hear it..but whether it is what you really desire in that situation is another thing. Volume and the attributes really required from my POV are a completely different thing..which is why I would get closer with 2x210 but even that then needs FOH and the sound to filter back from the P.A to help out for a powerful band and set.

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[quote name='daveparker123' timestamp='1336977096' post='1653311']
The problem seems to be IMO, many (not all) of the people who are favouring combos over bigger rigs keep talking about volume. I could buy a 100 watt combo and crank it to 10 but it would still sound feable, and sh*t!
[/quote]

I prefer a combo over a big rig. Nothing to do with volume, but because I'd look like a [email protected] taking it into a venue that only held 100-200 people & I want to do just the 1 trek from the car (which would carry a couple of 8x10s).

I agree with you in the fact that it's about sounding good at lower volume. But there's a lot of smaller rigs that sound phenomenal at lower volumes & put paid to the antique fridge.


[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1336980074' post='1653340']
hmmm..I'd like to see ..and hear..you try to get 1000watts of bass out of 2x112's without the cones flying across the room.
[/quote]

Barefaced?

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[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1336980130' post='1653342']
I prefer a combo over a big rig. Nothing to do with volume, but because I'd look like a [email protected] taking it into a venue that only held 100-200 people & I want to do just the 1 trek from the car (which would carry a couple of 8x10s).

I agree with you in the fact that it's about sounding good at lower volume. But there's a lot of smaller rigs that sound phenomenal at lower volumes & put paid to the antique fridge.




Barefaced?
[/quote]

I'd break it even if it has to gobble up power because of the tune..

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Well, I have owned and gigged with an 8x10 (and the SVT to go with it), and while my 38lb Schroeder might not look the part in a wall-of-amps-nob-substitute kind of way, it produces a shedload of bass volume and presence for the gigs I play. I played on a pretty big stage at Fleetwoodstock (about 30ft x 30ft) last year, and had no trouble hearing what I was doing, but then the sound engineer was good. If I was playing even bigger stages a lot (or had the spare cash), I'd be phoning Alex for a Super Twelve or even a Super Fifteen, but there's nothing on God's earth which would make me want to buy an 8x10 again. Been there, done that, got the back to prove it...

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Each rig I've had has been slightly more portable than the last, so I guess I'll end up with something small and convenient eventually. But there's a lot of big old gear out there that sounds fantasic and at a fraction of the price of ligtweight rigs, because it won't all fit in a Tecso bag. So if you can carry and store it ok then long may it last. And if it was all about convenience, no one would have drummers. :lol:

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Very interesting that, Muzz. Must admit, am looking forward to using my Schroeder 410 on a big stage, see how it fares, as so far, out of the many set-ups I`ve had, the Schroeders have the best on-stage sound projection. far away, near, to the side, they are amazing. Not sure about standing behind them, but am sure Jorg has even covered that.

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[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1336980074' post='1653340']
hmmm..I'd like to see ..and hear..you try to get 1000watts of bass out of 2x112's without the cones flying across the room.

[/quote]

Well, between them they're capable of handling 1200w RMS - it's the amp that's the limiting factor in this rig. Saying things like 'I'd like to see it' is beside the point - the simple, verifiable fact is they can and they do. If you don't like the Vanderkley idea, try Barefaced Midgets, which are even lighter and at least as powerful. Technology has moved on since the days of skyscraper cabinets. Get over it.

But if you insist, then by all means use 'em - knock yourself out - fill the stage. Just don't start spouting off about guitarists being too loud or having too much ego (both topics that have been raised on BC in recent weeks).

Edit: there's a thread running in 'General Discussion' at the mo with several people saying they're happy to plug straight into the DI and let the sound man sort it out. On the 'bigger is better' philosophy, I guess that such people don't really count as bass players then. ;)

Edited by leftybassman392

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The OP says "The bigger the better in his experience", which brings out the usual "what I say is best" response from the "tone Nazis".

Let the guy have his opinion. It’s right for him, "in his experience" size does matter.

Whoa, somebody has a different opinion! Deal with it.

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[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1336983870' post='1653396']

Let the guy have his opinion. It’s right for him, "in his experience" size does matter.

Whoa, somebody has a different opinion! Deal with it.
[/quote]

.....which is what I said in my second paragraph. ;) And in any case, without dissenting opinion we wouldn't have a debate - isn't that why we're all here?

Edited by leftybassman392

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