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daveparker123

Bass rigs-the bigger the better in my experience.

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[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1336974300' post='1653298']
This is the same forum where people like to spout off about guitarists who don't want to be parted from their Marshall half-stacks, right?

Am I the only one here to sense a touch of irony?


Here's the thing - most modern professional players just don't do this sort of thing. As several people have already pointed out modern equipment is smaller, massively lighter and every bit as loud (GB STL 900 + 2xVanderkley 112 MNT = approx 1000w). How anyone can justify more than that in strict musical terms escapes me.
[/quote]

I quite agree. It all seems highly hypocritical. The fact is that the amps don't need to be any louder than the kit on stage and the low end can be determined by the PA system in house. I remember my old 600 W 4x10 rig with 2 vented 2x10 cabs had plenty in the way of low end. Easily enough to drown out the kick drum. That is one of the reasons I got rid of the extra cab- I had the neighbours complaining about the amount of bass, and these are the same neighbours that are ok with me drumming every day! No need to have a rig like that for band practice.

Edited by EdwardHimself

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I remember hearing/feeling a VBA400 and Marshall 8x10 rig at a gig in Swindon one night years ago whilst owning an Ampeg SVT3 and 8x10 and the Marshall DESTROYED my Ampeg !! I then sold the Ampeg and got a VBA and VBC 4x12, half size but impossibly loud... until I tried the VBA with a Mesa Powerhouse cab... it vibrated the stage so hard it hurt my feet stood in front of it.... so I got one... monster of an amp, deafeningly loud, walnut and sledgehammer effect everywhere we played....got sick of carrying it at gigs... especially when the load in was up a dark/wet slippery fire escape, then load out after a few beers....sold it all and got a Mesa Diesel 4x10 and Mesa Carbine M6. Still silly loud and super efficient but MUCH easier to carry about. I once borrowed an Aguilar 500 watt head and a pair of Aguilar 1x12's for a gig and was amazed how well it worked...
Depends if you can live with lugging it around is what it came down to......

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[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1336974513' post='1653300']
I wonder how many of those rubbishing the experience of using a really big cab have actually owned and gigged one.
[/quote]



Carrying that lot up the stairs: definitely rubbish.

Now:
[IMG]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/Incarante/Rig002.jpg[/IMG]

Covering for guitar with that too. and with much less power, because thee technology has been updated in that cab.

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Usable Frequency Range: 30Hz - 10kHz (22kHz with tweeter)
Recommended Amp Power: 300-[b]1500W [/b]RMS

This cab will utterly outperform an Ampeg 810, in every appreciable way, including being heard clearly across the stage (vertically mounted 12" drivers dispers far more evenly than the horizontal pairs of tens in an 810 cab).

Oh, and it weighs rather a lot less too.

And yes, I've played through 810's and this cab, and this thing is just nuts, absolutely no comparison.

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[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1337007685' post='1653865']


Usable Frequency Range: 30Hz - 10kHz (22kHz with tweeter)
Recommended Amp Power: 300-[b]1500W [/b]RMS

This cab will utterly outperform an Ampeg 810, in every appreciable way, including being heard clearly across the stage (vertically mounted 12" drivers dispers far more evenly than the horizontal pairs of tens in an 810 cab).

Oh, and it weighs rather a lot less too.

And yes, I've played through 810's and this cab, and this thing is just nuts, absolutely no comparison.
[/quote]

Jam a Sansamp VT bass through it and it will sound like one too. Also, in this model, the 12s aren't doing anything in the dispersion issues region for an 8x10, the mid covers that, which has the superior dispersion from being small.

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[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1336974513' post='1653300']
I wonder how many of those rubbishing the experience of using a really big cab have actually owned and gigged one.
[/quote]
Very possibly most of us, certainly I have and it no longer interests me at all.

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[quote name='daveparker123' timestamp='1336977096' post='1653311']
The problem seems to be IMO, many (not all) of the people who are favouring combos over bigger rigs keep talking about volume.
[/quote]
I've said nothing about volume but I commonly use a 300watt 1x12 combo and I would still regularly get asked to turn down if I didn't know how to set my volume appropriately for the venue.

[quote name='daveparker123' timestamp='1336977096' post='1653311']
I could buy a 100 watt combo and crank it to 10 but it would still sound feable, and sh*t!
[/quote]
Well, don't buy one then.

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[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1336983870' post='1653396']
The OP says "The bigger the better in his experience", which brings out the usual "what I say is best" response from the "tone Nazis".

Let the guy have his opinion. It’s right for him, "in his experience" size does matter.

Whoa, somebody has a different opinion! Deal with it.
[/quote]
He asked for other people's opinions and so he got them. I've heard nothing Nazi about tone or anything else here. If people can't take the responses they should keep their mouths shut in the first place.

Edited by EssentialTension

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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1337009408' post='1653900']
Jam a Sansamp VT bass through it and it will sound like one too. Also, in this model, the 12s aren't doing anything in the dispersion issues region for an 8x10, the mid covers that, which has the superior dispersion from being small.
[/quote]

Good point!

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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1337009408' post='1653900']
Jam a Sansamp VT bass through it and it will sound like one too. Also, in this model, the 12s aren't doing anything in the dispersion issues region for an 8x10, the mid covers that, which has the superior dispersion from being small.
[/quote]

This coming Sunday I shall be rehearsing with a BDI-21 (at SVT setting), LM250 as pre-amp, W-Audio 1100W power amp and Barefaced Super 12, after which I will know if this rig is the 21st-century equivalent of an Ampeg SVT CL & 8X10! I strongly suspect that it is - if my experiments are anything to go by...

...it all fits rather nicely into my Polo, too...

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It's more complicated than absolute volume - take a hypothetical bi-amped rig with SINGLE large driver for the low end that's capable of moving the same amount of air as an 8x10 (ie total amount of energy that converts to sound is the same), EQ it to the same notional 1w/1m response as the 8x10 and then put it side by side with the same 8x10.

Stand 3 metres away like on a biggish stage. It will sound different. The 8x10s will have a much narrower vertical dispersion - at 'medium' distances from the cab it will sound way louder at certain frequencies because the same energy is projecting into a narrower band. Your head will also be a bit closer to the source than the single low speaker if it's on the floor (with mids from a separate driver above).

The other thing is that without the EQ, the 8x10 will likely be way more tilted towards the lower mids than a typical single larger driver. Speaker outputs are only additive up to frequencies dictated by driver spacings, above which it starts doing all sorts of crazy combing.

Anyway, none of this stuff is capable of producing really big true bass, only BIG PA subs will do that! I suspect even 10 metres away the PA subs the OP talked about would contribute significantly. But actually for most gigs I personally prefer the tonal profile of a smaller rig :)

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[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1337007685' post='1653865']


Usable Frequency Range: 30Hz - 10kHz (22kHz with tweeter)
Recommended Amp Power: 300-[b]1500W [/b]RMS

This cab will utterly outperform an Ampeg 810, in every appreciable way, including being heard clearly across the stage (vertically mounted 12" drivers dispers far more evenly than the horizontal pairs of tens in an 810 cab).

Oh, and it weighs rather a lot less too.

And yes, I've played through 810's and this cab, and this thing is just nuts, absolutely no comparison.
[/quote]

My friend has got one of these. I must say I am tempted to get one at some point...

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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1337014926' post='1654051']
Does the BDI 21 need a preamp? The sansamps don't tend to.
[/quote]

No it doesn't, but the LM250 allows Markbass VLE and VPF Filter goodness, which I like very much.

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[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1336983870' post='1653396']
The OP says "The bigger the better in his experience", which brings out the usual "what I say is best" response from the "tone Nazis".

Let the guy have his opinion. It’s right for him, "in his experience" size does matter.

Whoa, somebody has a different opinion! Deal with it.
[/quote]

Cheers man!

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Broad was the grin on my face when I walked into our rehersal studio to find a pair of Ampeg SVT's left there by a touring band.I like's 'em big.

Now if only someone would buy my Marshall 1 x 18 reflex bin...

Edited by Spike Vincent

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[quote name='daveparker123' timestamp='1336933379' post='1652939']
[font=comic sans ms, cursive][size=5][b]I'm intrigued as to what other bass players opinion is of this[/b]. I understand that some may prefer combos or smaller amps for many reasons. Perhaps there are other advantages of smaller amps and cabs apart from portability, I just can't think of any![/size][/font]
[/quote]

I'm sorry, I'm confused - do you want to hear other people's opinions or not? Or only the opinions of people who agree with you?

As you've just discovered, Basschat is a broad church - not everybody wants a rig the size (and weight) of a brick s***house. If you don't understand why not, perhaps you need to think about it a bit more. And, as has been suggested already, refrain from posting until you do.

Edited by leftybassman392

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Exactly, just because you have all those speakers, and bucket-loads of watts, doesn`t mean you turn up to 11. Surely you still have the volume the same as in a small venue - so that you`re as loud as the kit, un-miked?

However in those situations, I`ve always found that having the big-fridge rigs have enabled me to hear myself better than having the smaller rigs.

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There is visual expectation as well. Some rigs will get you laughed off the stage. :lol: :lol:

I never minded turning up to an Ampeg..esp if the head was all valve.. less fussed otherwise.
ditto Boogie, which I would have preferred tbh, but these were benchmark rigs for the stage
and what you asked for on any rider. They translated well and everyone knew what they were and did...
If you got your spec, you were pretty chuffed and suspected that the crew were well sorted.
Some kit is more readily availalble in certain countries so it is easier all round to go with a certain reference, which for good or bad, Ampeg is.
Had Ashdowns as well... and even the tired old units could do a job.
..and they were crewed in..what is not to like? Some crews would even have a trailor load of stuff where you could take your pick, but then you'd
also likely have huge JBL bins for side fills and a stage mon man.. It was all about control.

I just know what works for me on the stages I get to play... and if you spec overkill, then far better that than to find out belatedly the rig isn't upto it... and too late to do anything about it.

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[quote name='born to be loud' timestamp='1337023571' post='1654275']
Never had much use for a big rig...
[/quote]

But you were born to be loud!!

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Big doesn't need to be heavy. Loud doesn't need to be heavy. Output transformers need to be heavy though, I'll keep my weight there.

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Totally depends on the gig! If I'm playing a small pub that I'll take a 2x10, if I'm playing at a decent sized venue/festival in drop A then I'll take a big rig with me. The more air I can push with those 10 inch speakers the clearer that monster A is!

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I'm sure there's stuff that would sound just as good (speaker-wise) as the gear listed in my signature and be lighter etc but I have always loved the sound of my rig and wouldn't change for what is probably nothing more than sentimental reasons.

Have to say, the little Ampeg rig is amazing for the size and I'm just used to lugging the Boogies around so I'll stick with that. Doesn't astop me envying the lightweights though.

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Unless it's a venue that we've played before we have no idea what size the next gig is going to be and I have to assume that any outdoor gig that we play will not have P.A. support provided which leaves us with no option but to arrive fully equipped for any eventuality, well up to about 1000 audience. There is a limit to how much gear we can get in the van. So for a small gig 8x10 and 200w valve head and don't turn it up so much. Large outdoor gig / festival, 8x10 and 200w valve head and perhaps a tad more volume but never to 11, perhaps 10 1/2 though. I do so love the sound of valves.

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