CJPJ Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Hello. If have been running an OTB 500 with the SP210 for around 18 months in a 4 piece mainly messing about in a studio. We are now about to do a couple of gigs (garden party and hotel reception with around 200 people on the later). Whilst I Love the OTB, I haven't always felt the power through the SP210 when turning up the dial and have recently experienced the cab farting at higher volumes with gain. I thought this was a bit strange since the amp is on 500w against the cab's 600w. I as the OTB has dual output, I was thinking I could maximise the power by adding another cab. Since the amp can deal with 4 or 8 ohms I figure I could add another SP210 or maybe even an SP410. Can anyone give me some guidance please? Should I attempt to combine something (Orange or otherwise) with the SP210 or just sell it and replace it with something that will max the potential of the OTB on its own?? I'm not hugely technical so any advice really appreciated. Thanks, Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 If you like the sound of the SP210, adding another has 2 benefits, in my view: 1. You have the current setup for rehearsals, which up until now it seems has been sufficient. 2. You add in the other SP210 for gigs, and you now have the same sound but more of it. However for me, when I tried out the OTB, the SP cabs sounded great, but lacked size of sound, though were plenty loud enough. Personally I would go for a single, efficient lightweight 410. Many bassists "only" use a single 410 and have no worries being heard without PA support. I use a cab with two 10s and a single 12, and have no worries in any of the venues to date (100 - 200 capacity). If anything, keeping low enough has been the problem I`ve encountered - and those OTBs are very loud, a good 410 you`d have the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 What's your budget? How many gigs are you planning to do? My first suggestion would be to get another SP210 cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Like Lozz says, add another SP210 (that is if your current one is an 8Ω cab). Your OTB will be putting out @ 350w into 8Ω. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanovw Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I would add a Barefaced compact. That would make an awesome rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSix Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 [quote name='deanovw' timestamp='1333735892' post='1605957'] I would add a Barefaced compact. That would make an awesome rig. [/quote] +100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJPJ Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1333735665' post='1605954'] What's your budget? How many gigs are you planning to do? My first suggestion would be to get another SP210 cab. [/quote] Budget not as important as getting the right set but in my head I guess £500 or £800 with £300 from the sale of the SP210 if I went down that route. I don't expect to be doing more than one gig a month but who knows where this could go ??! Another SP210 would look neat but interested to know if another killer combination would work. The barefaced kit looks good, not sure how I missed it before. Would love to upgrade the SP210 for the Big Twin..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 [quote name='CJPJ' timestamp='1333734029' post='1605922'] Whilst I Love the OTB, I haven't always felt the power through the SP210 when turning up the dial and have recently experienced the cab farting at higher volumes with gain. I thought this was a bit strange since the amp is on 500w against the cab's 600w. [/quote] This is to do with the limitation of isobaric loading, that since only one speaker is in contact with the air, you get the maximum spl limitations of one speaker, with the cost and weight of two. A Barefaced compact would utterly dominate it in terms of SPL, even with the difference in impedance, if you like the sound of a Compact, just get one instead, rather than adding, the orange cab won't have much to contribute used together. Big twin is a totally different prospect, the Compact is probably going to be comparable in tone, with less midrange mess, so cleaner overall, the Big Twin is a hifi thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 [quote name='CJPJ' timestamp='1333734029' post='1605922'] I haven't always felt the power through the SP210 when turning up the dial and have recently experienced the cab farting at higher volumes with gain. I thought this was a bit strange since the amp is on 500w against the cab's 600w. [/quote]The cab's 600w rating is moot, it only says how much power it will take before the coils melt. How much power it can use before farting out is a matter of the driver displacement. The displacement of the drivers used is 150cc. With a normal 210 that would come to 300cc total, but the SP210 isobaric configuration only exposes one cone to the air, so the effective displacement is that of one driver, 150cc. That's the price paid for the small cab size. IMO that price is far too dear. To see how it measures up to what's IMO a far better option have a look at the displacement figures shown here: http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/Volume-displacement.htm Doubling driver displacement offers the same increase in volume as quadrupling your power output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSix Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1333743627' post='1606094'] Doubling driver displacement offers the same increase in volume as quadrupling your power output. [/quote] The Barefaced Compact actual displacement is 566cc which is approaching four times the displacement of your SP210... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJPJ Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 Wow. That I didn't know. Maybe I should have had this chat 18 months ago! This explains a lot ..... thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1333735665' post='1605954'] What's your budget? How many gigs are you planning to do? My first suggestion would be to get another SP210 cab. [/quote] Agree on this approach, or get an Orange 410 Edited April 7, 2012 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomBass Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I've not used any of the Orange cabs. However I have been using an OTB500 with a single BF Compact, and it pretty much satisfies my needs tonally and volume-wise. And together they weigh 17Kg. I cannot imagine needing any more volume than that on stage without completely deafening the rest of the band (along with myself). The OTB is able to supply 500W into either 4 or 8 Ohm load, and this suits the Compact perfectly. I'd thoroughly recommend a Compact. Cheers Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSix Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Well the Orange SP410 is also isobaric (like the SP210) so the same lack of Vd applies. The SP410 will only have a displacement of 300cc compared to the BF Compact at 566cc...and it weighs 64lbs versus 27lbs for the Compact. The regular Orange 4X10 will give a Volume displacement of 600cc but it weighs 95lbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1333803366' post='1606712'] get an Orange 410 [/quote]SP410 displacement 300cc. Barefaced Compact displacement 566cc. The advantage of 566cc versus 300cc is just as significant as it would be If these were motorcycle engines. [quote]The regular Orange 4X10 will give a Volume displacement of 600cc[/quote]The Beta 10s used in the OBC 410 have only 102cc displacement each, for a total of only 408cc. Edited April 7, 2012 by Bill Fitzmaurice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSix Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1333805312' post='1606745'] The Beta 10s used in the OBC 410 have only 102cc displacement each, for a total of only 408cc. [/quote] Thanks for the clarification Bill - that's very poor in terms of performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 [quote name='StraightSix' timestamp='1333808532' post='1606793'] Thanks for the clarification Bill - that's very poor in terms of performance. [/quote]Awaiting the caterwallering replies from the "I don't care what the numbers say I love mine" set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJPJ Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1333812665' post='1606858'] Awaiting the caterwallering replies from the "I don't care what the numbers say I love mine" set. [/quote] Not from this corner. I do love the little Orange cab but I want more volumes so will probably sell the SP210 and give the Barefaced guys a call. Funny really as I'm not always substance over style Thanks for feedback everyone - and thanks Geoff for confirming the set up works. CJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1333805312' post='1606745'] SP410 displacement 300cc. Barefaced Compact displacement 566cc. The advantage of 566cc versus 300cc is just as significant as it would be If these were motorcycle engines. The Beta 10s used in the OBC 410 have only 102cc displacement each, for a total of only 408cc. [/quote] I wouldn't use either..I would get a regular 410. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamPodmore Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1333735730' post='1605955'] Like Lozz says, add another SP210 (that is if your current one is an 8Ω cab). Your OTB will be putting out @ 350w into 8Ω. [/quote] The Orange Terrors actually put out 500w at both 4 and 8 Ohms. I would say get something bigger than the SP210, like many have said above me. The Barefaced suggestion would be my choice, i'm planning on getting an OBT and a Barefaced Super 12 later this year. Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSix Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1333816924' post='1606960'] I wouldn't use either..I would get a regular 410. [/quote] 4X10 cabs are on the way out my friend, they were big in the 80s and 90s but they have been superceded now. It's not especially helpful that people like you keep telling confused potential buyers that 4X10s are some kind of magic...they are not. They have pretty poor measured performance in almost all areas compared to the latest bass cabinet designs, they are often extremely heavy and they have huge problems with dispersion due to the side-by-side configuration of the drivers. I can speak from experience as I have used 4X10 and 8X10 cabs many times in the past - a Barefaced Compact is lighter (by far), louder than all but the most boutique (read expensive) 4x10s and cheaper. Have you tried anything but 4X10s to support your statements...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) laughable tosh...!!! Edited April 7, 2012 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalpy Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 It's a fantastic resource having so much information available about the physics and what should work and what should not. There is the fun factor though as well. Technically the cabs I'm using now are much better than my old Hartke 410 but at times I really miss just being young, immature and bashing out basslines without worrying about dispersion or off-axis frequency response. That cab was more fun. If you play well and the band's good the music'll do the work. Get the cab that puts the biggest grin on your face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1333823487' post='1607090'] laughable tosh...!!! [/quote] Come on then, it was a reasonable question, substantiate your earlier statement. There's no clue in your sig.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 [quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1333825652' post='1607119'] If you play well and the band's good the music'll do the work. Get the cab that puts the biggest grin on your face. [/quote] That`s what it`s all about. Let your ears make the judgement - providing the wallet is in agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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