Sorting the set list order

[mrtcat]

In my band we always seem to disagree on the set order. It p###es me right off cos I'll write a set list out trying to build up to a cresceno at the end of both halves. Then someone always comes out with "I don't like that song too early in the set" or "why not just swap these 20 songs around a bit" and I end up having to write it all out again. When someone else gets of their arse to write a set list it always seems to make no sense to me with it being up and down all over the shop.

Does anyone have a formula or a theory for how to put your set together? If so it'll help me put a set together then be able to explain to the rest of the band why it should stay that way.

We play classic rock cheese btw

[merello]

Just start the songs in the order you want. The band will join in!

[BottomE]

[quote name='mrtcat' post='1289551' date='Jul 1 2011, 08:52 PM']In my band we always seem to disagree on the set order. It p###es me right off cos I'll write a set list out trying to build up to a cresceno at the end of both halves. Then someone always comes out with "I don't like that song too early in the set" or "why not just swap these 20 songs around a bit" and I end up having to write it all out again. When someone else gets of their arse to write a set list it always seems to make no sense to me with it being up and down all over the shop.

Does anyone have a formula or a theory for how to put your set together? If so it'll help me put a set together then be able to explain to the rest of the band why it should stay that way.

We play classic rock cheese btw[/quote]
+1 happens just like you said. I stay well out of it

[Blademan_98]

We tend to go for similar songs next to each other.

Also looking for keys that are sympathetic.

Always end a set on a good punchy fast song.

If you have a slow song bury it in the middle of the set

+1 on spreading complex songs as it gets a little weary playing them in a row

[Lozz196]

The one thing I`ve always fought virtually all the bands I`ve been in on this aspect is don`t leave all the best songs til last - grab the audience straight off, from the word go, then keep `em there.

Opener has to instantly get them, next has to keep them there, and then periodically insert your better numbers along the way. If you wait til the end of the set for all your best songs, in my view you`ve already lost the audience. Think of it like a range of moutains, with peaks and dips, and not like an uphill slope.

That said, do make sure that you end with at least two/three real good-uns, and save one of your really best songs for an encore, should you be asked for one.

After all, how many times have you seen an amazing band, who`s encore has been a real let-down? I`ve seen that happen many a time, and the gig falls flat on it`s backside, and the last impression the audience has is of a crap song. Send them home buzzing, they`ll spread the word.

[TimR]

It deosn't matter what order you play them in. The important thing is that EVERY song you play should be good. If you are playing a song that consistently gets a bad reaction i.e people go and sit down. then don't play it.

Every audience is different, we've played the same songs in the same order to different audiences and had a completely different reaction.

IME every band member (in inexperienced bands) wants to have a say in what songs to play, which ones are the best and which ones should be played when. Once the band has been playing a while the novelty wears off, they get bored with chopping and changing songs around and they learn it doesn't matter. Come up with a setlist, play it a few times then change it. Tell them to grow up and just play the tunes.

I did have a guitarist say that we couldn't start a set with a particular number because he needed to be warmed up properly to play it. Doh! Warm up before you go on!

Edited July 1, 2011 by TimR

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Blademan_98' post='1289591' date='Jul 1 2011, 09:27 PM']We tend to go for similar songs next to each other.

Also looking for keys that are sympathetic.

Always end a set on a good punchy fast song.

If you have a slow song bury it in the middle of the set

+1 on spreading complex songs as it gets a little weary playing them in a row [/quote]

Er.. Sort of.

[b]No songs in the same time signature next to each other[/b]

[b]No songs in the same key next to each other[/b]

[b]No tough "kills the singer" songs next to each other[/b]

[b]Definitely bury the slow ones[/b]

[b]Any songs needing re/de-tuning? Keep 'em together. PLAN in the frontperson's links to cover tuning or instrument changes[/b]

[b]Tailor the songs to suit the venue/expected audience[/b]

[b]Start strong, finish strong and have some strong material mid-set[/b] Not that we had much "filler" in the band in question.

[b]Time the set in your pre-gig rehearsal. Then you'll know if you'll fall within your time allocation. If you don't, edit it until you do. Never overrun. You'll be asked back again if you're tidy, slick and professional, whatever level you're playing at, and it won't P*ss other bands off.[/b]

[b]Have a really strong spare tune or two you can knock out really well in a tight spot. Helps if you under-run (unlikely if you planned it as above), but you never know.... [/b]

And be able to play all your material in any order whilst standing on your head in the dark no matter what else happens (assuming that you're playing originals)

That's how we did it in the best band I've ever been in. And it sure worked. We never played the same set twice. Keeps it fresh, makes you work at it, and can even surprise regular followers with your choice of inclusions/omissions. Assuming you have 20/30 tunes to play with and your sets are never over an hour or so long.

[leschirons]

We tend to try and make it as easy for the band as possible rather than only think of the audience.

Any instrument changes (fretted / fretless) we group together as big pauses are a no-no. and our keyboard player also plays sax so we group a few of each together.

No stuff that sounds similar together also (not that we play them but Jonnie B Good / Rollover Beethoven syndrome)

Don't keep the best song for the encore, you may not always get one.

Hit them between the eyes from the first number.

[Panamonte]

[quote]Lozz196 Posted Yesterday, 09:28 PM
The one thing I`ve always fought virtually all the bands I`ve been in on this aspect is don`t leave all the best songs til last - grab the audience straight off, from the word go, then keep `em there.

Opener has to instantly get them, next has to keep them there, and then periodically insert your better numbers along the way. If you wait til the end of the set for all your best songs, in my view you`ve already lost the audience. Think of it like a range of moutains, with peaks and dips, and not like an uphill slope.[/quote]

This is spot on - exactly my philosophy on putting a set list together.


[quote name='TimR' post='1289655' date='Jul 1 2011, 10:11 PM']It deosn't matter what order you play them in.[/quote]

It really, really does.

[dc2009]

IMO play your best song last, your second best song first and work from there. The first song can be variable if you have something new/different to play for a certain set.
Avoid songs with the same key/main note next to each other, and never put ones with the same chord progression adjacent to one another
Be sensible with tunings etc

the only thing i get arsey about is when i'm expected to play fast song after fast song at the start, especially at short notice, I always like a warm up

[stingrayPete1977]

These days I don't even ask for a set list, I listen out for what's next and we are off.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='1289675' date='Jul 1 2011, 10:37 PM'][b]No songs in the same time signature next to each other[/b][/quote]

Really? So at least every other song that you play is not in 4/4 then?

[jbn4001]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1289782' date='Jul 2 2011, 01:22 AM']Really? So at least every other song that you play is not in 4/4 then?[/quote]


My thoughts exactly when I saw that! Prog rock band possibly?

[Panamonte]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1289771' date='Jul 2 2011, 12:50 AM']IMO play your best song last, your second best song first and work from there.[/quote]

But if you're frontloading your set with all your 'worst' songs (not that you should be playing any of those, obviously) there ain't gonna be any punters still around to hear your 'best' songs. Or am I missing something here?

Yes, what I am missing is that I misread your post. I am an idiot and what you say makes perfect sense. Doh! It's late and I really should finish this lager and go to bed

Edited July 2, 2011 by Panamonte

[BottomE]

Just got in from a cracking gig and we played a couple of new tunes. Dilema for new songs is where to put them as you don't know how well they will go down.

[Panamonte]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1289801' date='Jul 2 2011, 01:48 AM']Just got in from a cracking gig and we played a couple of new tunes. Dilema for new songs is where to put them as you don't know how well they will go down.[/quote]

Like any young children being taken outside for the first time, wrap then up well - stick each one between a couple of corkers that you know are going to go down well.

[borisbrain]

Nowt wrong with the advice floating around here, all I would add is this:

If you play boring stuff early, and leave your best songs till last, then chances are people won't get too excited or start dancing until the end of your gig. Why not lob in some dancing toons a little earlier? It reduces the chance of people clearing off early.

Better still, avoid play anything boring...

Bestaluck

BB

*Edit* - on re-reading the thread, I've noticed that someone has said almost exactly this. Apologies.

Edited July 2, 2011 by borisbrain

[JTUK]

Leave it to the singer and every once in a while...if the set if cut-down, for example....we might chip in with one or two suggestions

[lojo]

[quote name='mrtcat' post='1289551' date='Jul 1 2011, 08:52 PM']In my band we always seem to disagree on the set order. It p###es me right off cos I'll write a set list out trying to build up to a cresceno at the end of both halves. Then someone always comes out with "I don't like that song too early in the set" or "why not just swap these 20 songs around a bit" and I end up having to write it all out again.[/quote]

In your situation I'd advise you just agree to nominate one person each gig to draft the list no arguments, so you agree not to agree but all get a chance to do it your way also

I am happy not seeing a list until I get to a gig

If there are logistical reasons such as change of instruments etc then that should be considered but arguing of subjective views on what song is best where might be a waste of time in the great scheme of things

[cytania]

If you are a punk/thrash band your singer may never get to utter the cheesy words "and now we come to the part of the evening when we change the pace and slow things down a bit"...

Start with a surefire stormer, the one that never goes wrong in rehearsals, then keep the pace mid-tempo. When you do slow things look for songs the audience doesn't actually think are slow ballads. Leave the 'throat ripper' songs that kill the singer to last.

If every song in our set has the audience dancing I'll be very, very happy. It's the nirvana we aim for.

[dc2009]

In a rocky/grunge/whatever you wanna call it band (listen if you like, see my signature - sorry for the plug), we have the difficulty where we could play every song in a mid-tempo or fast way, and leave out the slow songs entirely, however, I think this means people leave saying all your songs sounded the same, and that you can't do anything different, which is why I think it's imperative my lot always throw in a slower song, or even perphaps the ska tune just to mix it up a bit

[TimR]

[quote name='TimR' post='1289655' date='Jul 1 2011, 10:11 PM']I did have a guitarist say that we couldn't start a set with a particular number because he needed to be warmed up properly to play it. Doh! Warm up before you go on![/quote]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1289771' date='Jul 2 2011, 12:50 AM']the only thing i get arsey about is when i'm expected to play fast song after fast song at the start, especially at short notice, I always like a warm up[/quote]

[TimR]

[quote name='Panamonte' post='1289766' date='Jul 2 2011, 12:41 AM'][quote name='TimR' post='1289655' date='Jul 1 2011, 10:11 PM']
It deosn't matter what order you play them in.[/quote]


It really, really does.
[/quote]

Well, if you read the rest of my post then you'll see how I qualified that statement. There's no magic formula and swapping tunes around to try and fit said mythical magic formula will only serve to annoy your band mates. Settle on a setlist in the order [b]you[/b] like. It won't be the way your band mates like and it won't be the order that anyone in your audiences would chose either. It's down to one person to select/call the tunes and a [b]lot[/b] of time is wasted by people in bands endlessly discussing whether tune A should be before or after tune B. It happens in [b]every[/b] band I've ever been in and I suspect from the replies here it happens in every band that I haven't been in too.

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1289782' date='Jul 2 2011, 01:22 AM']Really? So at least every other song that you play is not in 4/4 then?[/quote]
We had material in (predominantly) 4/4, 3/4 and 6/8 in equal measure, so plenty of scope for avoiding having them all in blocks together..
And not a prog band, neither. The tunes just came out that way!

[Marvin]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1289831' date='Jul 2 2011, 06:56 AM']Leave it to the singer and every once in a while...if the set if cut-down, for example....we might chip in with one or two suggestions[/quote]
Exactly what my lot do.