Dusty Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Just received another Bass that I won on e-bay. What the Bass is, is not relivent for this thread other than it was not cheap. My gripe is in the way it was shipped I've cut and pasted the text from the listing, taking out any reference to the make of the bass etc. and attach some photos of how I received the bass in question.... [b]at no time will I name the e-bayer from whom I received this from.[/b] [color="#0000FF"][i]On offer is my beautiful ****************** (check out the wood grain) in incredible condition. This bass has an amazing tonal variation *********************************. The low B sounds fantastic. I have only gigged this bass twice and would not sell it if i didn't struggle with 5 strings. This is a pro level instrument and deserves to go to a home where it will be used and appreciated. I keep getting out my ******** cos i prefer 4 strings but the ***** is at least as good as the ******in tone and has a lot more variation. I want to stress that the bass is in perfect condition because i am a very fussy instrument owner and when the bass wasn't being used it was kept in its case which is also included as i wouldn't dare ship this in a soft case. There are no dings or buckle rash - effectively you are buying a new bass. In addition i have had the bass setup by my tech guy who has put some lovely DR High Beams on and set the intonation and action perfectly. I will send to UK only and obviously would prefer pick up but am happy to post insured. The last bass i sent cost £28 to post insured.[/i] [/color] So having seen what a 'careing' instrument owner the seller was, I had no qualms in bidding on this item. What shocked me, and we are now in dispute over is..... [b]Would you ship this expensive Pro Level bass via Parcel Force (£28.00) with just a bit of 'sticky tape' across the catches of the case ?[/b] Needless to say, the case ( a covered thin chipboard variety) arrived smashed, but thankfully the guitar is ok. I have bought & sold loads of guitars both on here, Talkbass & e-bay from the Uk, Germany & the USA and never have I seen something shipped without any form of protection. I believe I have bought a Bass with a case, not a Bass in a shipping box. The seller disagrees. Am I right in seeking compensation for a replacement case ?? Your comments would be appreciated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Some people are idiots! It's disappointing that this seller couldn't be bothered to ship the bass safely. You’re lucky the instrument wasn’t damaged. If they couldn't be bothered to do that bit properly then I doubt you'll get anything out of them for a replacement case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I have had basses sent in just hard cases, always got here fine, after all that's what they are designed for. The bass is fine the case is a bit knocked but as far as I read it that was for shipping in. I'd forget about it personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I've never shipped a bass in a case without packing the case in bubble-wrap and a cardboard box and and would dream of doing so. I'd be pretty naffed off if I bought a bass and it turned up in its case with a bit of parcel tape on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 My view is that (based on the listing) you weren't buying the case, therefore no recompense is due ... but that the seller was irresponsible for not packing properly and very lucky the bass wasn't damaged, leading to a serious dispute and him ultimately being very out of pocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Parcel Force see the case as external packaging and won't compensate for it. First mistake by the seller was sending the bass with the worst possible courier! Not how i'd ever ship a bass but some people think it's adequate - i received a pricey bass in just a case with a Porcel Farce sticker on it, no tape and it wasn't even locked. Just shows how different people have different expectations of couriers more than anything. The bass i bought was well looked after, mint condition in fact. Obviously the other BCer thinks the case was a bonus to protect it during shipping and no more, you saw it as part of the deal and bid accordingly (it looks like a nice enough case in the listing IMV). Now i see both sides of the story - and your pics - i think you have good reason to feel shortchanged as the case has been damaged during shipping. Seller negligence has spoiled a good case which you have paid for, not received free as a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I think you need to look at the wording of the ad and what it says about the case: "[b]when the bass wasn't being used it was kept in its case which is also included[/b] " - doesn't mention the condition of the case and if this is it's case, - (unless you have reason to believe otherwise - e.g. was a different case shown in the photos?),..you may not have a leg to stand on legally. It seems that, thankfully, the bass arrived in good condition, though as you say, the case didn't - perhaps your expectations (of the condition of the case) were too high?? Were you led to believe the condition of the case was, in some way, proportional to the value of the case - i.e. expensive bass=expensive case? The ad doesn't suggest this. I can understand that you feel aggrieved but what you need to think about is "what do you actually want to resolve this matter": are you expecting a "new" case?? - don't think you're "right enough" to get this.. reduction in the price? - have you discussed/negotiated this with the seller? - still don't think you've got the law on your side..but as a gesture of good will.. a complete refund? - I think the auction was for the bass (+ case admittedly) - is the bass NOT as described in the ad - e.g. not in saleable condition? I believe you would need to show that this is the case to be entitled to the refund. In the case of (especially eBay) resolutions there is generally some compromise from both parties - what are you prepared to compromise on..? May not be what you wanted to hear but you did ask for opinions.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 [quote name='Dusty' post='1116783' date='Feb 5 2011, 06:09 PM']I believe I have bought a Bass with a case, not a Bass in a shipping box. The seller disagrees. Am I right in seeking compensation for a replacement case ??[/quote] A hard case provides more protection than a cardboard box. The bass has turned up in described condition. I can't see what you want to seek compensation for, other than to try and rip off the seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 [quote name='Protium' post='1116850' date='Feb 5 2011, 07:05 PM']A hard case provides more protection than a cardboard box. The bass has turned up in described condition. I can't see what you want to seek compensation for, other than to try and rip off the seller.[/quote] Nail --> Head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 [quote name='Protium' post='1116850' date='Feb 5 2011, 07:05 PM']A hard case provides more protection than a cardboard box. The bass has turned up in described condition. I can't see what you want to seek compensation for, other than to try and rip off the seller.[/quote] I think you are missing the point, The case was included in the final sale, I would never dream of sending a bass in a cardboard box, But when I sell my basses with a hardcase / softcase, I want the item to arrive in the best possible condition, So it would be boxed & bubble wrapped to give it the best possible chance. If you bought a case on here or anywhere else for that matter and it turned up damagaged with a only a bit of sticky tape and a stamp on it, you would also be peeved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merello Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) Unfortunately, he has shipped it as described. You'd probably have to show negligence via previous correspondence agreeing to a better form of packing. I have shipped using a case but tried my best to wrap and cushion the inside around the plank. Edited February 5, 2011 by merello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 [quote name='Clarky' post='1116827' date='Feb 5 2011, 06:41 PM']My view is that (based on the listing) you weren't buying the case, therefore no recompense is due ... but that the seller was irresponsible for not packing properly and very lucky the bass wasn't damaged, leading to a serious dispute and him ultimately being very out of pocket[/quote] This. Sounds like a lucky escape. If the bass is a high-value instrument (as it sounds like it is) then you would probably have been looking to invest in a new, decent case anyway. I'd be looking to breathe a sigh of relief and move on I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 to ship a guitar in a (well packaged) cardboard box is the norm. to get a case is a bonus. shame it couldn't be wrapped in card, but hey. you aint gonna wrap it up in card every time you go to a gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 [quote name='Dusty' post='1116876' date='Feb 5 2011, 07:28 PM']If you bought a case on here or anywhere else for that matter and it turned up damagaged with a only a bit of sticky tape and a stamp on it, you would also be peeved[/quote] I can see why you might feel peeved, but will it really be worth all the hassle to get a few quid towards the case? If it was a cheap one, and well-used, how much do you think this would amount to? Enjoy the bass and move on would be my advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 [quote name='Johnston' post='1116925' date='Feb 5 2011, 07:54 PM']There are two ways of looking at it. 1 was it was an auction for a bass+case. the 2nd was it was an auction for a bass with a case thrown in and it does say The auction title "Lakland 55-01 5 String Bass" doesn't include a case so [b]I[/b] would take that as it is for the bass only and bid accordingly unless I messaged the seller and they stated case is in A1 part of the auction etc etc . Personally I think the seller was abit foolish sending Parcel force as no musical instruments are insured over I think £150 and cases are not covered unless packaged. But if anything had went wrong he would have learnt that the hard way and you obviously would have been compensated. As long as it got to you for a reasonable cost, not like charging £50 and sending it a way that cost £15 you can't really complain about the courier or the cost unless a different way was agreed on previous. The Item in the auction "Lakland 55-01 5 String Bass" got to you in one piece, I presume in the condition described and included was a hard case which it was shipped in. The hardcase wasn't actually the item for sale . It's one of them circumstances where if there is a bit of ambiguity it's better sending a few messages just to clarify things before bidding then bidding accordingly. I think this is one of those cases. The auction doesn't state what condition the case is in and the pictures don't really give much clue. Personally I think its just an accidental badly worded sentence plus a bit of presumption which has lead to a misfortunate misunderstanding.[/quote] Or a fight to the death? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 [quote name='Johnston' post='1116936' date='Feb 5 2011, 07:58 PM']Only if I can keep the bass if the winner should later die from his wounds [/quote] Alright but I get the case, is that included? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Personally, I read "case included" as while not the item you're bidding for, it's part of the lot and not the shipping container. HOWEVER, I'd also think "case included" as a bonus, so the fact it's damaged, while annoying, isn't an issue as it wouldn't be the primary item I was after. Still a bit odd not to even attempt to put some cardboard on it though, just to protect it slightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 [quote name='Protium' post='1116850' date='Feb 5 2011, 07:05 PM']A hard case provides more protection than a cardboard box. The bass has turned up in described condition. I can't see what you want to seek compensation for, other than to try and rip off the seller.[/quote] This! .... and yeah, me personally I would have put a sleeve of cardboard around the case, but since you've already said yourself that it was a [quote name='Dusty' post='1116783' date='Feb 5 2011, 06:09 PM']Pro Level bass .................... the case ( a covered thin chipboard variety)[/quote] then surely you weren't going to keep that level of bass in that kind of case anyway???? So ... I'd let it slide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 chuck the case out,and get a decent gig bag. I'm sure your bass will love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I think that Hiscox hardcase, that my custom ACG bass came in, wasn't even 'sticky taped' at all, not to mention that bass lied loose in the case, as a result, bass was damaged, thank god, it wasn't neck or body, but preamp knob, but ACG pre's aren't the cheapest, right.. I guess these situations like that comes from either inexperience or pure ignorance. When I packed my beloved Ibby Prestige for shipping, I prepared to a level to probably withstand an atomic bomb with all that sticky tape and tightening straps on the case, and it's not because buyer insisted it, that's just a matter responsibility.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 The seller says the case has been used to store the bass and is included in the sale. If there isn't some further description, for example saying the case is "tatty but servicable", then surely the buyer is entitled to assume the case is in good condition and fit to be used as long term storage for the base. Like they're entitled to assume the bass is in good, playable condition unless stated otherwise. Buyers usually bid more for a bass that includes a case than one that doesn't, so it's not a nice bonus, it's part of the sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Mariner Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I'd very much see the case as part of the sale too, since it was listed in the description - not as a 'free extra' as some imply here. I'd also think several times before buying a nice bass off the vendor, having read both sides of the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarcher Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 [quote name='Protium' post='1116850' date='Feb 5 2011, 07:05 PM']A hard case provides more protection than a cardboard box. The bass has turned up in described condition. I can't see what you want to seek compensation for, other than to try and rip off the seller.[/quote] Rather a strong statement that,accusing someone of blatant thievery and not very helpful. Still ,were all entitled to an opinion I suppose. Mistakes may have been made that we can all learn from. Maybe the accusations and counter accusations should be left out leave it now to the involved parties to sort things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 The item description specifically mentions that the case included. Therefore the case can't be considered 'sacrificial' in this instance, as the description doesn't include that caveat - which it would have to. Since the case is included in the item description, the seller is in the wrong here because the item (ie bass plus case) has been shipped without adequate packaging. The seller may have meant well but unfortunately they have not made clear their intentions in the item description and the buyer can be seen to have bought it in good faith. It's all very well saying cases are meant to protect basses, but if you bought a case alone unseen for, say, fifteen quid, you'd be pretty annoyed if it was shipped unprotected and arrived broken! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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